Imagine this scenario: Parents from around the world send their children to a rustic camp set in the midst of Kendtucky's Bluegrass Region for the summer. All one hundred children become infected with a deadly virus during the first week of camp and have but one monty to live. Fortunately, a specialist who has seen a similar outbreak in New Mexico knows of a treatment: the Yucca cactus, when ground to a pulp, blended with vinegar and ingested over the period of three weeks, will completely counteract the virus and return the children to full health.
Unfortunately, every single child finds the smell of concoction so utterly repulsive that no amount of coaxing by even the best of counselors succeeds in getting anyone to eat any of it. TO make matters worse, the virus somehow drives the children mad, prompting them to lash out in foul language devilishly at those trying to help them and accuse their counselors of gross misconduct. Luckily, yet another specialist develops a serum that, when injected hypodermically, creates within the child an insatiable passion for eating the Yucca mash.
Now imagine the news of the virus reaches the alarmed parents. The camp director immediately sends a letter reassuring them that he LOVES all their children, that he is offering to ALL their children the life-saving Yucca mash in LIBERAL QUANTITIES, that he will supply this expensive preparation without charge and that all children will be brought to the cafeteria three times a day and "strongly urged to eat".
Three months later, the parents arrive in the Bluegrass to retrieve their children. But at the campsite, they are stunned to discover that seventy-five children have died from the virus. Interrogating the director, they discover that the life-saving food could not work its wonders unless the child was injected with the appetite stimulant. On further questioning they discover that the director had chosen to inject only twenty-five children with the serum, though he had an unlimited supply at his disposal. To say nothing about their anger and grief, the parents are utterly perplexed!
In Chorus they immediately challenge the claim made by the camp director in the letter they had received, asking, "How can you claim to have "loved" the seventy-five dead children if you could have saved them but didn't?" We can imaging just how unconvincing some of the director's answers might be: "But I offered the Yucca mash liberally, freely and passionately." Yes, but all this talk about the merits of mixture misses the issue of the serum! "But the children are to blame, since they ate exactly what they wanted and violently rejected my help!" Yes, but you fully controlled exactly what each child wanted! "But note how much attention I lavished on these children in the last weeks of their lives." And you call this love--to provide the most exciting camp activities to a child as she dies, while you withhold the very serum of life?
The directors claim to love all children rings hollow at best, deceptive at worst. If love will not employ all available means to rescue someone from ultimate loss, it is hard to hear the announcement of universal love as good news. Indeed, it is hard to hear it as love at all. In our judgment, it becomes meaningless to claim that God wishes to save all while also insisting that God refrains from making the salvation of all possible. What are we to make of a God whose walk does not match his talk?
----------above scenerio given by Jerry L. Walls and Joseph Dongell in Why I am not a Calvinist
Scripture to meditate on:
Isa 45:22 - "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other
Another philosophical problem with Calvinism
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_SoaringEagle
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Another philosophical problem with Calvinism
Last edited by _jeffreyclong on Mon May 21, 2007 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:
Reason:
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_tartanarmy
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One of the worst illustrations I have ever read.
Let me inject some Biblical reality into this illustration!
Mark
Let me inject some Biblical reality into this illustration!
Mark
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Calvinists used to explain such things by the "two-wills" argument. They said that God's "revealed will" was that all be saved but His "secret will" was that only some will be saved. However, it seems lately, around here, and elsewhere, that they flatly say that He does not love everyone, does not wish that they all come to repentence, etc. If the latter is true, and God doesn't love everyone, and doesn't even say as much, then the above illustration falls short. Calvinists would of course interpret those passages that "appear" to teach God's love for all men differently. Namely, to mean only the elect. In this instance, Gods "walk" would match His "talk" very much.The directors claim to love all children rings hollow at best, deceptive at worst. If love will not employ all available means to rescue someone from ultimate loss, it is hard to hear the announcement of universal love as good news. Indeed, it is hard to hear it as love at all. In our judgment, it becomes meaningless to claim that God wishes to save all while also insisting that God refrains from making the salvation of all possible. What are we to make of a God whose walk does not match his talk?
God bless,
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Derek
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7
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_tartanarmy
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- Location: Australia
Parallel = Everyone ever born is the poor innocent recipient of this thing called Original sin from our first parents Adam and Eve. Poor children.Imagine this scenario: Parents from around the world send their children to a rustic camp set in the midst of Kendtucky's Bluegrass Region for the summer. All one hundred children become infected with a deadly virus during the first week of camp and have but one monty to live. Fortunately, a specialist who has seen a similar outbreak in New Mexico knows of a treatment: the Yucca cactus, when ground to a pulp, blended with vinegar and ingested over the period of three weeks, will completely counteract the virus and return the children to full health.
Text to consider
Psa 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from the womb, speaking lies.
Parallel = All sinners are not only poor unfortunate sinners, but they have a tendency to follow the pattern of their fallen parents in rebellion against God.Unfortunately, every single child finds the smell of concoction so utterly repulsive that no amount of coaxing by even the best of counselors succeeds in getting anyone to eat any of it. TO make matters worse, the virus somehow drives the children mad, prompting them to lash out in foul language devilishly at those trying to help them and accuse their counselors of gross misconduct. Luckily, yet another specialist develops a serum that, when injected hypodermically, creates within the child an insatiable passion for eating the Yucca mash.
Text to Consider
Rom 1:29-32
being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, insolent, proud, braggarts, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, perfidious, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but have pleasure in those practicing them.
Parallel = The Supreme Ruler so respects mans will that He only offers a cure to those who will eat the cure. He will not force anyone to take the cure. Such would be ungentlemanly, wouldn’t it?Now imagine the news of the virus reaches the alarmed parents. The camp director immediately sends a letter reassuring them that he LOVES all their children, that he is offering to ALL their children the life-saving Yucca mash in LIBERAL QUANTITIES, that he will supply this expensive preparation without charge and that all children will be brought to the cafeteria three times a day and "strongly urged to eat".
Text to Consider
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on Me; because Jehovah has anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
Eze 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will remove the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh,
Parallel = God is expected, or demanded to save everyone! Grace is not grace, it is expected!Three months later, the parents arrive in the Bluegrass to retrieve their children. But at the campsite, they are stunned to discover that seventy-five children have died from the virus. Interrogating the director, they discover that the life-saving food could not work its wonders unless the child was injected with the appetite stimulant. On further questioning they discover that the director had chosen to inject only twenty-five children with the serum, though he had an unlimited supply at his disposal. To say nothing about their anger and grief, the parents are utterly perplexed!
God must save everyone if He has the power to do so. Salvation is not an act of mercy but a deed demanded by the guilty.
Text to Consider
Rom 9:15 For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
Rom 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens.
Parallel = Condemnation is not justified, nor hell deserved for all men without exception!In Chorus they immediately challenge the claim made by the camp director in the letter they had received, asking, "How can you claim to have "loved" the seventy-five dead children if you could have saved them but didn't?"
Text to Consider
Rom 9:19-23
You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will?
No, but, O man, who are you who replies against God?
Shall the thing formed say to Him who formed it, Why have you made me this way?
Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel to honor and another to dishonor?
What if God, willing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction; and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy which He had before prepared to glory;
Parallel = God must save everyone if He has the power and ability to do so.We can imaging just how unconvincing some of the director's answers might be: "But I offered the Yucca mash liberally, freely and passionately." Yes, but all this talk about the merits of mixture misses the issue of the serum! "But the children are to blame, since they ate exactly what they wanted and violently rejected my help!" Yes, but you fully controlled exactly what each child wanted! "But note how much attention I lavished on these children in the last weeks of their lives." And you call this love--to provide the most exciting camp activities to a child as she dies, while you withhold the very serum of life?
He has no right to withhold grace. He has no right to save some and condemn the rest, when He has every right to condemn all...
He has absolutely no right to have mercy on whomever He decides to show mercy.
We reject that God, preferring a God who lets us decide for ourselves if we will be saved or not, even though we cannot save ourselves. Even though we hate God and spit in His face, and would hang Him on a cross all over again, especially if this Calvinist God is the God of scripture! But we know better.
God would never choose to save whoever He desires to show mercy and leave others to perish. That is not my God. My God pleads and years and strives for all, even though He knew before I was born whether I would end up in Hell or not! Even if He knew I would definitely end up in Hell, He still made me anyway...............
Text to Consider
Pro 16:4 Jehovah has made all for His purpose; yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Jer 31:3 Jehovah has appeared to me from afar, saying, Yea, I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore with loving-kindness I have drawn you.
Joh 17:2 even as You have given Him authority over all flesh so that He should give eternal life to all You have given Him.
Joh 17:9 I pray for them. I do not pray for the world, but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
Joh 17:20 And I do not pray for these alone, but for those also who shall believe on Me through their word,
Calvinism does not teach what these guys think Calvinism teaches. It is no wonder they are not Calvinists.The directors claim to love all children rings hollow at best, deceptive at worst. If love will not employ all available means to rescue someone from ultimate loss, it is hard to hear the announcement of universal love as good news. Indeed, it is hard to hear it as love at all. In our judgment, it becomes meaningless to claim that God wishes to save all while also insisting that God refrains from making the salvation of all possible. What are we to make of a God whose walk does not match his talk?
----------above scenerio given by Jerry L. Walls and Joseph Dongell in Why I am not a Calvinist
Also, these guys are presenting a god far different from the one presented in scripture.
The God of the Bible is,
Son 5:16 His mouth is most sweet; yes, He is altogether lovely. This is my Beloved, and this is my Friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
He is not like us,
Psa 50:21 These things you have done, and I have kept silence; you thought that I was like yourself, but I will rebuke you, and set in order before your eyes.
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in Your sight. You hate all doers of iniquity.
Mark,
injecting a little biblical reality to the illustration presented.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
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_SoaringEagle
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:40 pm
- Location: Louisville, KY
Greg Boyd Comments on this passage
Proverbs 16:4
“The Lord has made everything for its purpose,
even the wicked for the day of trouble.”
Compatiblists often cite this verse to support the conclusion that some people are created wicked for the expressed purpose of being sent to hell. Since Scripture teaches that God is love (1 John 4:8, 16), that God loves all people (John 3:16) and thus does not willing afflict anyone (Lam. 3:33) or will their damnation (Ezek. 18:30–32; 33:11; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9), we should seek for a different interpretation.
An alternative interpretation is not difficult to find. Proverbs 16:4 is using the language of moral order. God set up creation such that good is (eventually) rewarded and evil (eventually) punished. In this sense the “purpose” for the wicked is found in the “day of trouble” that shall come upon them. It’s significant to note that the verb translated in the NRSV as “made” (p⦣146;al) can be translated as “works out” (as in the NIV), an observation that confirms our interpretation. God steers the wickedness of agents so that their end eventually fits the moral order of creation. Moreover, the word translated as “purpose” (ma’ neh) can be translated as “answer.”*
The meaning of the passage, then, is that God works things out so that the end of the wicked “answers” their wickedness. They eventually reap what they sow. We thus need not entertain the gruesome prospect of God creating people for the expressed purpose of having them suffer endlessly.
Note
* See D. Clines, “Predestination in the Old Testament,” in Grace Unlimited, ed. C. Pinnock (Minneapolis, MN: Bethany House, 1975), 122.
Proverbs 16:4
“The Lord has made everything for its purpose,
even the wicked for the day of trouble.”
Compatiblists often cite this verse to support the conclusion that some people are created wicked for the expressed purpose of being sent to hell. Since Scripture teaches that God is love (1 John 4:8, 16), that God loves all people (John 3:16) and thus does not willing afflict anyone (Lam. 3:33) or will their damnation (Ezek. 18:30–32; 33:11; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9), we should seek for a different interpretation.
An alternative interpretation is not difficult to find. Proverbs 16:4 is using the language of moral order. God set up creation such that good is (eventually) rewarded and evil (eventually) punished. In this sense the “purpose” for the wicked is found in the “day of trouble” that shall come upon them. It’s significant to note that the verb translated in the NRSV as “made” (p⦣146;al) can be translated as “works out” (as in the NIV), an observation that confirms our interpretation. God steers the wickedness of agents so that their end eventually fits the moral order of creation. Moreover, the word translated as “purpose” (ma’ neh) can be translated as “answer.”*
The meaning of the passage, then, is that God works things out so that the end of the wicked “answers” their wickedness. They eventually reap what they sow. We thus need not entertain the gruesome prospect of God creating people for the expressed purpose of having them suffer endlessly.
Note
* See D. Clines, “Predestination in the Old Testament,” in Grace Unlimited, ed. C. Pinnock (Minneapolis, MN: Bethany House, 1975), 122.
Last edited by _jeffreyclong on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
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_tartanarmy
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- Location: Australia
What good can come of explaining away scripture?
I would not like to be Boyd on judgement day.
And I sincerely advise no one to follow the man into his errors.
Mark
I would not like to be Boyd on judgement day.
And I sincerely advise no one to follow the man into his errors.
Mark
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
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_tartanarmy
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- Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:26 pm
- Location: Australia
Boyd is smart enough to know he is misrepresenting Calvinism here, so I will call him either a liar or he is not as smart as I thought he was.Compatiblists often cite this verse to support the conclusion that some people are created wicked for the expressed purpose of being sent to hell.
No Calvinist believes that God creates wicked people just to send them to Hell!
Like I said, he will have much to answer for at the Judgement, and I would hate to be in his shoes.
I am quite sure God puts up with those who misrepresent what reformed folk believe to a point, but misrepresenting God Himself?
Nope, he stands upon holy ground and blasphemes the creator, and that is a different matter entirely.
Mark
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Open Theism
It might be more appropriate if this section of the board was labled Calvinism/Arminianism/Open Theism.
I have been seeing a lot of Open Theism over the past month that I have been reading from this site.
Haas
I have been seeing a lot of Open Theism over the past month that I have been reading from this site.
Haas
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Proverbs 16:4
4 The Lord has made everything for its purpose,
even the wicked for the day of trouble.
A few other verses to consider (okay, maybe more than few):
Revelation 4:11
11 “Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created.”
Isaiah 46:8-11
8 “Remember this and stand firm,
recall it to mind, you transgressors,
9 remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
11 calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.
Daniel 4:34-35
34 At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and praised and honored him who lives forever, for his dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom endures from generation to generation;
35 all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
and he does according to his will among the host of heaven
and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand
or say to him, “What have you done?”
1 Chronicles 29:11-12
11 Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O Lord, and you are exalted as head above all. 12 Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all. In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all.
Psalm 115:3
3 Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases.
Psalm 33:9-11
9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.
10 The Lord brings the counsel of the nations to nothing;
he frustrates the plans of the peoples.
11 The counsel of the Lord stands forever,
the plans of his heart to all generations.
2 Samuel 10:12
12 Be of good courage, and let us be courageous for our people, and for the cities of our God, and may the Lord do what seems good to him.”
Exodus 4:10-11
10 But Moses said to the Lord, “Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue.” 11 Then the Lord said to him, “Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?
Deuteronomy 32:39
39 “‘See now that I, even I, am he,
and there is no god beside me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
Job 23:13
13 But he is unchangeable, and who can turn him back?
What he desires, that he does.
Amos 3:6
6 Is a trumpet blown in a city,
and the people are not afraid?
Does disaster come to a city,
unless the Lord has done it?
Psalm 105:16-17
16 When he summoned a famine on the land
and broke all supply of bread,
17 he had sent a man ahead of them,
Joseph, who was sold as a slave.
Isaiah 14:27
27 For the Lord of hosts has purposed,
and who will annul it?
His hand is stretched out,
and who will turn it back?
2 Kings 17:25
25 And at the beginning of their dwelling there, they did not fear the Lord. Therefore the Lord sent lions among them, which killed some of them.
1 Samuel 2:6-8
6 The Lord kills and brings to life;
he brings down to Sheol and raises up.
7 The Lord makes poor and makes rich;
he brings low and he exalts.
8 He raises up the poor from the dust;
he lifts the needy from the ash heap
to make them sit with princes
and inherit a seat of honor.
For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's,
and on them he has set the world.
Lamentations 3:37-38
37 Who has spoken and it came to pass,
unless the Lord has commanded it?
38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that good and bad come?
Isaiah 45:5-7
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness,
I make well-being and create calamity,
I am the Lord, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:9-10
9 “Woe to him who strives with him who formed him,
a pot among earthen pots!
Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’
or ‘Your work has no handles’?
10 Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’
or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’”
All this in light of:
Psalm 5:4
4 For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
evil may not dwell with you.
1 John 1:5
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Praise the LORD God almighty!
Lamentations 3:22-24
22 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
23 they are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.
24 “The Lord is my portion,” says my soul,
“therefore I will hope in him.”
Haas
4 The Lord has made everything for its purpose,
even the wicked for the day of trouble.
A few other verses to consider (okay, maybe more than few):
Revelation 4:11
11 “Worthy are you, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they existed and were created.”
Isaiah 46:8-11
8 “Remember this and stand firm,
recall it to mind, you transgressors,
9 remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
11 calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.
Daniel 4:34-35
34 At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and praised and honored him who lives forever, for his dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom endures from generation to generation;
35 all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
and he does according to his will among the host of heaven
and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand
or say to him, “What have you done?”
1 Chronicles 29:11-12
11 Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O Lord, and you are exalted as head above all. 12 Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all. In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all.
Psalm 115:3
3 Our God is in the heavens;
he does all that he pleases.
Psalm 33:9-11
9 For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.
10 The Lord brings the counsel of the nations to nothing;
he frustrates the plans of the peoples.
11 The counsel of the Lord stands forever,
the plans of his heart to all generations.
2 Samuel 10:12
12 Be of good courage, and let us be courageous for our people, and for the cities of our God, and may the Lord do what seems good to him.”
Exodus 4:10-11
10 But Moses said to the Lord, “Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue.” 11 Then the Lord said to him, “Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?
Deuteronomy 32:39
39 “‘See now that I, even I, am he,
and there is no god beside me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
Job 23:13
13 But he is unchangeable, and who can turn him back?
What he desires, that he does.
Amos 3:6
6 Is a trumpet blown in a city,
and the people are not afraid?
Does disaster come to a city,
unless the Lord has done it?
Psalm 105:16-17
16 When he summoned a famine on the land
and broke all supply of bread,
17 he had sent a man ahead of them,
Joseph, who was sold as a slave.
Isaiah 14:27
27 For the Lord of hosts has purposed,
and who will annul it?
His hand is stretched out,
and who will turn it back?
2 Kings 17:25
25 And at the beginning of their dwelling there, they did not fear the Lord. Therefore the Lord sent lions among them, which killed some of them.
1 Samuel 2:6-8
6 The Lord kills and brings to life;
he brings down to Sheol and raises up.
7 The Lord makes poor and makes rich;
he brings low and he exalts.
8 He raises up the poor from the dust;
he lifts the needy from the ash heap
to make them sit with princes
and inherit a seat of honor.
For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's,
and on them he has set the world.
Lamentations 3:37-38
37 Who has spoken and it came to pass,
unless the Lord has commanded it?
38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that good and bad come?
Isaiah 45:5-7
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun
and from the west, that there is none besides me;
I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form light and create darkness,
I make well-being and create calamity,
I am the Lord, who does all these things.
Isaiah 45:9-10
9 “Woe to him who strives with him who formed him,
a pot among earthen pots!
Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’
or ‘Your work has no handles’?
10 Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’
or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’”
All this in light of:
Psalm 5:4
4 For you are not a God who delights in wickedness;
evil may not dwell with you.
1 John 1:5
5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
Praise the LORD God almighty!
Lamentations 3:22-24
22 The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
23 they are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.
24 “The Lord is my portion,” says my soul,
“therefore I will hope in him.”
Haas
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason: