I was recently reading a book called "90 Minutes in Heaven" which was written by a Christian man about his experience after being killed (then later brought back to life) in a car accident. What does everyone think about N.D.E.s? Is there a biblical case to be made for their validity? I know Hank Hanegraaff says "no" but I disagree with him because his proof-text is taken from Ecclesiastes. When Jesus rose from the dead, many dead people returned to life. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, though he wasn't sure if it was in the body or in the spirit. Jesus was famous for raising the dead and Paul raised a man in the book of Acts. I'd say there's a strong biblical case for N.D.E.s
What this particular author revealed about his experience struck me as authentic and he often apologized for not being able to convey his experience with the correct words. For example, he spoke of colors that don't exist on Earth and heard music that can't be compared to anything here... and it was clear that he wasn't trying to be poetic, but very much literal. I'm curious to hear what this community thinks of such expereinces.
Near Death Experiences
Near Death Experiences
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Hi JC-- we discussed this a little under the topic "the biblical meaning of soul"-- you might want to check that out when you have a chance.
i have heard enough anectdotal stories (i guess anectdotal is the only kind of evidence there is) that i cannot dismiss NDEs out of hand. however, some NDEs relate things that are not biblical, and therefore i dismiss those.
i have read stories of people who have apparently died in the hospital, while on the operating table, etc and who claim to "leave their bodies" and actually see their bodies on the table; sometimes they are able to describe items on top of the hospital or on top of cabinets, etc that would not be visible from the floor. what exactly is happening in these instances is unknown. is it the soul leaving the body? i am not sure. chemical reactions in the brain dont necessarily explain everything, although it may explain a great deal.
I wish the stories in the Bible about those whom Jesus raised provided more detail. Where was Lazarus while he was dead? was he snatched back to earth from wherever he was, much to his dismay?
this is an interesting question, and i look forward to what others have to say on the matter.
TK
i have heard enough anectdotal stories (i guess anectdotal is the only kind of evidence there is) that i cannot dismiss NDEs out of hand. however, some NDEs relate things that are not biblical, and therefore i dismiss those.
i have read stories of people who have apparently died in the hospital, while on the operating table, etc and who claim to "leave their bodies" and actually see their bodies on the table; sometimes they are able to describe items on top of the hospital or on top of cabinets, etc that would not be visible from the floor. what exactly is happening in these instances is unknown. is it the soul leaving the body? i am not sure. chemical reactions in the brain dont necessarily explain everything, although it may explain a great deal.
I wish the stories in the Bible about those whom Jesus raised provided more detail. Where was Lazarus while he was dead? was he snatched back to earth from wherever he was, much to his dismay?
this is an interesting question, and i look forward to what others have to say on the matter.
TK
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"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
I've heard it said that Heaven wasn't opened until Christ's resurrection. Therefore, anyone raised before that time would have just been reanimated. There wouldn't have necessarily been any consciousness on the part of the dead person. I also think that God actually knows when we die and doesn't take us until then. Therefore, "near-death" isn't so near from God's perspective.
My own opinion about N.D.E. is similar to my view of communication with the dead...it's all lies of Satan, meant to deceive. If a non-Christian has a N.D.E., are they more likely to come back saying they felt at peace and comfort, or that they felt like they were being roasted? Which one would be more likely to produce repentance? And yet they're almost universally positive experiences. Just like when Mr. Edwards (I think that's his name) talks with "dead people" and relays their messages to relatives, they always assure their living relatives that they're doing just fine. And if the dead are doing just fine, and they lived a sinful life, why should the living do any differently?
I do think it's possible for God to reveal something of the hereafter to a believer, as per Paul's experience. But I think it's more likely for Satan to use N.D.E. as a false sense of security for those who *don't* believe.
Just my $0.02. Notice I didn't give any prooftexts...cuz this is just my opinion. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.
My own opinion about N.D.E. is similar to my view of communication with the dead...it's all lies of Satan, meant to deceive. If a non-Christian has a N.D.E., are they more likely to come back saying they felt at peace and comfort, or that they felt like they were being roasted? Which one would be more likely to produce repentance? And yet they're almost universally positive experiences. Just like when Mr. Edwards (I think that's his name) talks with "dead people" and relays their messages to relatives, they always assure their living relatives that they're doing just fine. And if the dead are doing just fine, and they lived a sinful life, why should the living do any differently?
I do think it's possible for God to reveal something of the hereafter to a believer, as per Paul's experience. But I think it's more likely for Satan to use N.D.E. as a false sense of security for those who *don't* believe.
Just my $0.02. Notice I didn't give any prooftexts...cuz this is just my opinion. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.
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As you noted above, this is a debated issue. Some say the Old Testament saints, for example, were consciously with God before Christ's ressurrection and were saved "on credit." I think this agrees with scripture. But whether they were in Heaven or a seperate place called Hades is disputed. A think a lot is made of the issue of "time and space" which, in my opinion, are related to the physical universe God created on day 1 of creation. I say this because they are properties of physical matter (time being the rate of "decay" for energy systems) Were Moses and Elijah sitting around playing cards until Christ rose from the dead? It gets rather absurd when we apply time to the spiritual realm. However, I don't want to sidetrack the discussion on that.I've heard it said that Heaven wasn't opened until Christ's resurrection. Therefore, anyone raised before that time would have just been reanimated. There wouldn't have necessarily been any consciousness on the part of the dead person.
I agree that a great deal of deception is afoot with many of the claims I've heard. Especially those which resemble the new age philosophies.
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In 1981 I died in a farm accident where I had been strangled by a piece of auger equipment. My breathing and my heart stopped. I was revived and wide awake after being revived. To me absolutely no time had passed from the time I went blank until I opened my eyes again. I was not aware of anything during that time. The only strange thing about it was as I was being revived a song from the group "Chicago" was playing in my head. Does this count as a near death experience? I know that it doesn't but I think it shows what our minds can do to us under certain conditions.
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what song was chicago playing, allyn? just curious.
i agree with you, seth that deception could be a real factor. i guess my only hesitation in that regard is if the person is really dead, then what part of the person is satan deceiving?
TK
i agree with you, seth that deception could be a real factor. i guess my only hesitation in that regard is if the person is really dead, then what part of the person is satan deceiving?
TK
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"Were not our hearts burning within us? (Lk 24:32)
Allyn, what you describe is very similar to what happens when a person gets knocked out in a boxing match or choked out during martial arts competition. Basically, you feel as though no time has passed and suddenly you're awake and wondering why people are staring at you. 
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Would you mind me asking if you were a Christian at the time of the accident?
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Would you mind me asking if you were a Christian at the time of the accident?
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Hi TK, - the song was "Does Anybody know what time it is"
Hi JC, - Yes, I was a Christian then. (I have been since before my pre-teen years. I have had 5 such close calls in my life. All of them were averted by the grace of God. I have always known there was a reason God preserved me from my sometimes careless activity. Many good things have happened since those early days and I now see why God protected me.
One such incident was an absolutely miraculous event. I was scaleing a rockwall located above a bolder filled river in upper California (Giant Redwood country) when suddenly I lost my balance and started falling backward. I had a friend who was below me sitting along this small river and he saw the whole thing. Suddenly as I was nearly off my feet and leaning way back off center a small vine like branch appeared at eye level and I instinctively grabbed hold of it and pulled myself up straight again. I had not seen this vine earlier and it was the only plant growing on that wall. When I made my way back down, my friend, also a believer asked me if I saw the way that vine shot out from the rocks? It was at that time that I understood something very extraordinary had happened and I have never forgotten the peace God gave me from that experience.
I have shared this experience only a few times and only with believers, but it is still fun to watch the expressions people get because I just know that they don't quite believe the story. None have come right out and said they didn't believe me but their look gives it away.
Every one of my near death experiences have been averted by God's hand in a not so normal way. I have learned to be more careful with my life and value it. I figured God would get tired of my carelessness if I didn't start thinking safety first.
Hi JC, - Yes, I was a Christian then. (I have been since before my pre-teen years. I have had 5 such close calls in my life. All of them were averted by the grace of God. I have always known there was a reason God preserved me from my sometimes careless activity. Many good things have happened since those early days and I now see why God protected me.
One such incident was an absolutely miraculous event. I was scaleing a rockwall located above a bolder filled river in upper California (Giant Redwood country) when suddenly I lost my balance and started falling backward. I had a friend who was below me sitting along this small river and he saw the whole thing. Suddenly as I was nearly off my feet and leaning way back off center a small vine like branch appeared at eye level and I instinctively grabbed hold of it and pulled myself up straight again. I had not seen this vine earlier and it was the only plant growing on that wall. When I made my way back down, my friend, also a believer asked me if I saw the way that vine shot out from the rocks? It was at that time that I understood something very extraordinary had happened and I have never forgotten the peace God gave me from that experience.
I have shared this experience only a few times and only with believers, but it is still fun to watch the expressions people get because I just know that they don't quite believe the story. None have come right out and said they didn't believe me but their look gives it away.
Every one of my near death experiences have been averted by God's hand in a not so normal way. I have learned to be more careful with my life and value it. I figured God would get tired of my carelessness if I didn't start thinking safety first.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Allyn, you should write a book! Brother, that's a wonderful story. Perhaps we should make another thread devoted to miracles. I've often thought Steve Gregg's personal testimony has been his best apologetic argument. You just can't argue with someone else's personal experience. You might disagree, but you can't argue with it. Reminds me of John 9 -- "Whether the man is a sinner or not, I don't know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!"
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One such incident was an absolutely miraculous event. I was scaleing a rockwall located above a bolder filled river in upper California (Giant Redwood country) when suddenly I lost my balance and started falling backward. I had a friend who was below me sitting along this small river and he saw the whole thing. Suddenly as I was nearly off my feet and leaning way back off center a small vine like branch appeared at eye level and I instinctively grabbed hold of it and pulled myself up straight again. I had not seen this vine earlier and it was the only plant growing on that wall. When I made my way back down, my friend, also a believer asked me if I saw the way that vine shot out from the rocks? It was at that time that I understood something very extraordinary had happened and I have never forgotten the peace God gave me from that experience.
What a great story Allyn! thanks for sharing it with us.
Robin
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God Bless