Storing up treasures- MT 6:19, 20

Post by **_TK** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:20 pm

"Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

in one of his lectures, steve mentioned that there is a hebrew (or aramaic) figure of speech (i cant remember what he called it) that is sometimes used for effect. an example is where Jesus said "i came not to bring peace, but a sword." what He really was saying, however, was that He came not to bring ONLY peace, but ALSO a sword.

is there any possiblity that the Matthew verse could be interpreted similarly, (i.e. do not ONLY lay up treasures on earth, but ALSO treasures in heaven) or does vs 21 totally negate this possibility?

I'm pretty sure i know the answer but i wanted to hear some other thoughts.

TK

Post by **_atheist** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:24 pm

TK,

Nah

Stop kiddinng yourself buddy. Jesus was very unambiguous when it came to the earthly posessions. Remember the "easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle" phrase? I don't think Jesus left you guys much room for a debate here. Give up your earthly posessions or your odds of salvation are erm... slightly worse than that of a camel trying to pass through an eye of a needle

Your local heathen at your service here, always here to help you understand those completely unambiguous NT passages

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:31 pm

Hi TK,

I'm not sure if this is the term Steve used that you're thinking of, but Jesus did use a lot of rabbinic hyperbole, which was a pretty common genre in ancient Jewish teaching. The idea is to make an extreme statement in order to get the listener's attention and get a point across. It's effect is similar to the way a parable will get the listener's attention by using a story to make a point. Those who don't understand the concept of different Jewish communication styles can get thrown off-track by trying to read them as straight expository teaching, as our friend Atheist seems to have done.

Post by **_atheist** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:36 pm

Mort_Coyle,
Taking those obvious words of your Teacher and trying to soften them by invoking some unspecified pecularities of the ancient language while taking the Genesis 6 day universe creation story or Jesus' bodily resurection as literal truths strikes me as a height of hypocrisy.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:02 am

Hmmm, well I don't take the Genesis 6 day creation story literally, but I do believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus, so I'm not sure where that puts me on your hypocrisy scale.

So, I'm curious. Since you are dispensing Biblical advice, how would you delineate the literary genres found in the Old and New Testaments?

Post by **_Jim** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:06 am

Wasn't the eye of the needle and actual small gate entering Jerusalem which was to small to allow full grown camels to pass through easily?

I don't necessarily take the 6 day creation literaly, but I also can see that it could be true, assuming time is a variable. Who am I to say that time wasn't moving faster creating the illusion things are much older than they are. I also take a similiar stand on evolution in that from genesis to now the whole process could of been guided. We simply do not know. We could even create life in a lab, but then again that would not be a natural process but intelligent design.

Could life be explained by natural process? Maybe.
Could life also be created? Yes.
Could the whole of the universe be explained by natural process? Maybe.
Could we, with sufficient technology, create our own universe? Yes.

Jim

Post by **_Paidion** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:03 am

Well "Atheist", I believe in a literal 6-day creation less than 10,000 years ago, the resurrection of Christ, His virgin birth, the swallowing of Jonah for three days in a great fish, ect. Yet I believe in Hebraic hyperbole, and do not for a moment consider that Jesus was saying that it is impossible for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Does that make me a "hypocrite"?

"Atheist",what do you think a "hypocrite" is? Do you think it refers to someone who is inconsistent? It doesn't. The word means "play-actor" --- one pretending to take a particular position, while actually taking a different one.

Post by **_JC** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:48 am

I think the key part of that scripture is the word "yourself." Jesus said not to store up treasures for yourself. I have no problem with God blessing my finances so that I become rich because I know that money won't stay in my hands very long.

Steve and others like him (Brother Yun) have inspired me to be content with that I have. If my cup overflows then someone else can drink.

Post by **_TK** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:15 pm

i just finished listening to steve's teaching on radical christian economics, and what i just cant get comfortable with is the idea that i shouldnt save for retirement or otherwise protect myself from financial ruin. i know we are to trust God, but dont we have to do our part? if at some point in the future paychecks stop, then what? in other words, when all the Christians my age start retiring in 30 years or so, should we all expect God's miraculous provision? or should we do our part now?

steve also talked about medical insurance. i understand his points-- God could heal me; other sources of payment might come in, or i might die and the medical expense be spared. but let's assume that my appendix bursts (not an unheard of scenario) and i have to spend a week or two in the hospital and i survive. the bill will easily run $20-30,000. if i dont have health insurance, who is going to pay the bill? not the govt, because i dont qualify for benefits. not friends or the church-- they dont have that much money either and i would feel rather sheepish about asking them. it just seems oversimplistic to say that God will provide. sure He could-- but how? maybe he already has-- by letting me buy reasonably affordable health insurance as a benefit thru work.

what am i missing here?

TK

Post by **_Royal Oddball 2:9** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:45 pm

Firstly, I agree that we shouldn't lay up treasures here on earth. I think when we become disciples of Christ, we renounce ownership of our possessions and become stewards of them instead. I think it's unconscionable to own several cars, a boat and a motorcyle when there are Christians in third-world countries who are starving to death.

However, I do struggle with this in application to my everyday life. Do my beliefs mean I shouldn't enjoy a ten dollar steak every now and then? And if we shouldn't take advantage of the retirement and health benefits available to us, how do we resolve that with the commendation of Proverbs to the ant who stored up provision for the winter?