Roman Catholic and The Bible.

[popeman]

Dear Tom

I think you are getting “burned out” because you appear to have lost your gusto in some of your talks. You may want to take a break and see if your brother will come back in your stead. Yes, it does appear that brother, Catholic Steve, was censured. I went into the old forum too and tried to see how your brother did but found nothing from him but only numerous non-Christians responding to “Catholic Steve”. You can type in other authors and get a list of their posts but not Catholic Steve. So at least we know you have a brother and he exists. That may be a lesson for you and me….as soon as we leave they may “scrub” out any history of our existence” Yikes!

Steve Gregg, you have no Christian history?! Well, you are an American, too, and I am sure there are all sorts of American historical writings about your American brothers /sisters who have come and gone. Yes, they were not exactly like you but I am sure they still held to the same Constitution, etc, so I am sure there is a Christian history that you can find about.

Heck, someone/thing brought you to the faith. Share that with us and then find out what brought that person in and go backwards. You’re sure to find out all sorts of stuff about your Christian heritage. Protestants just do not want to go back into history except maybe 15-20 years when they were “born again”.

Hey, but I did not see anyone answer my question. Do you consider me (Catholics) Christian? I believe in the saving grace of Jesus Christ. I believe that Protestants are Christian, only they are worship slightly differently. Are we all Christian here? Peace. Popeman

[darinhouston]

Dear Tom

I think you are getting “burned out” because you appear to have lost your gusto in some of your talks. You may want to take a break and see if your brother will come back in your stead. Yes, it does appear that brother, Catholic Steve, was censured. I went into the old forum too and tried to see how your brother did but found nothing from him but only numerous non-Christians responding to “Catholic Steve”. You can type in other authors and get a list of their posts but not Catholic Steve. So at least we know you have a brother and he exists. That may be a lesson for you and me….as soon as we leave they may “scrub” out any history of our existence” Yikes!

That's an absurd charge with no foundation. To my knowledge, we've never "scrubbed" or deleted anything that wasn't overtly offensive. We had a database failure some months ago before this new forum was created, and the host has done an excellent job resurrecting most of the old posts, but some users were not retrievable. Perhaps, this is what happened to Catholic Steve, but also it may be possible that this was not his "handle" -- could he have used a different user name and this was just the name folks were calling him?

Hey, but I did not see anyone answer my question. Do you consider me (Catholics) Christian? I believe in the saving grace of Jesus Christ. I believe that Protestants are Christian, only they are worship slightly differently. Are we all Christian here? Peace. Popeman

I do believe that Catholics can be Christian and that most of the doctrine of the Catholic faith is consistent with Christian tradition. I can't speak to the salvation of any particular individual that I don't know well, but I do not consider Catholics by category as "not Christian." I do believe it's more than saying we "worship slightly differently" though. Our beliefs are quite different as to salvation and the role and authority of the institutional church in that process as you would no doubt agree.

[Jill]

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[popeman]

Hey, relax. I only saw what I saw. Tom saw it too. The site (Steve G) said that I was banned for the past miscommunication of USMC lingo and that this Catholic Steve was "almost" banned, too. That means he was never banned. So when Tom and I looked at the original forum we saw all sorts of comments from other Protestant authors commenting on/about the Tim Staples debate. This is where Tom said that his brother had a majority of his talks. We found all sorts of these authors using Catholic Steve ‘s name as a reference point to debate him (so he had to have been there) but not one discussion point was there from him. It is ironic that if there was a “computer glitch” it appears to have wiped out all of his comments and not any of the other authors that were making comments about his position.

Regardless, are Catholics Christian? PAX Popeman

[steve]

The remarkable results of the glitch (namely, removing all the posts by one author, while leaving all the posts by certain others in the same thread) did indeed happen, and we know of several authors whose posts suffered in this way. I did not know until you pointed it out that Catholic Steve was among them. It is not our policy to delete anyone's posts, unless, as Darin said, they contain objectionable material. It is not desirable that there be gaps in the dialogue, such as you have described, so it certainly was not our doing.

[Jill]

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[Suzana]

We found all sorts of these authors using Catholic Steve ‘s name as a reference point to debate him (so he had to have been there) but not one discussion point was there from him. It is ironic that if there was a “computer glitch” it appears to have wiped out all of his comments and not any of the other authors that were making comments about his position.

(bold mine)

Hi popeman,

You don't sound convinced, so for your sake but also for any new readers that may be wondering about this:

It was more than a "computer glitch", it was a major crash, & the reason for having a new forum. You can read about some of the problems here if you wish:
crash discussion

All of my posts for example disappeared entirely from some threads. The threads that I originated also disappeared completely. Some were able to be restored, but I am listed under id_2481 instead of my name.

Here is a comment I posted back then:

Troy,
I think you do just need to re-register. I had to. If you check the memberlist, you will notice it stops at 6 Dec 2006 - everyone that joined after that seems to have been wiped out, that's why your posts are gone.

I've actually come across a couple of Catholic Steve's posts (I haven't looked for more), but he is listed as id_1238

http://www.theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1571

http://www.theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1564

add: (I wrote this post before I realised Steve had already responded).

[Jill]

.

[christopher]

I think the answer is pretty simple. The users table got corrupted and the more recent subscribers got their id's deleted. All the posts are still there, there's just no id to reference them to so they "appear" to be deleted. I'll bet if you can find out CatholicSteves id number, you'll find them in this forum.

However, anyone who wants to find a conspiracy can usually dig up evidence to support one.

"Are Catholics Christian?"

In my mind, that's like asking "are cars red?".

Some are, some aren't.

[tom]

But when we show sound views they say, "Sorry, no way can I see you view!".

But, tom, it's not that we don't let you use Scripture, it's just that we don't find the views as sound. Pointing to clear unambiguous scriptural references that teach a point is one thing, but when folks twist scripture to say things it doesn't say, or they point merely to coincidences or parallels that the apostles themselves or even the earliest church fathers didn't note as having doctrinal significance, then I don't think we're being unfair to tell you honestly that we don't see your view. When we disagree with a scriptural position, we aren't saying you don't have a right to use scripture like we are, what we're saying is you're not using scripture fairly or merely that we don't agree with your particular point being made by scripture.

Don't you agree that all positions derived from scripture are not of equal weight merely because they "use scripture?"

When popeman says you use circular reasoning I can see where he's coming from. You say, " but when folks twist scripture to say things it doesn't say,... then I don't think we're being unfair to tell you honestly that we don't see your view. When we disagree with a scriptural position,...", you're interpreting scripture to your own way of thinking.

I have yet to have anyone show me in ' Is the Roman Catholic Church the Kingdom?' where I'm wrong. It just doesn't follow the way you would interpret it! If I'm wrong show me where. Steve Gregg has come back with the only post regarding Acts 15 that made any sense. I responded with what I thought was an equal interpretation but no one said anything.

How can you say you are right when you are the one doing the interpreting?

Tom