The temptation of Christ ...

[Guest]

Honestly, you guy's crack me up. Instead of believing what God says and trying to apply it to your life you run around in endless theological circles.
Jesus was Born without the sin nature the rest of us inherited from Adam and kept himself sinless, trusting God for his well being, unlike Adam. That is what scripture gives us.

[Guest]

I can see your point. I think you might be right, although I still find it hard to contemplate the idea that one theoretically could live without sinning even though the Bible states all of us have sinned. So then, what is your opinion then on Jesus...Was he born with a sinful nature or not? I think I would still say no because he didn't have a biological father. It seems to me to be the only logical conclusion as to why he would be born from a virgin. Also, the Bible states he is the second Adam which sort of implies he was imitating Adam before the fall and not after it.


Hi Micah, This phrase "sinful nature" seems a little bit misleading because it seems to me the bible clearly teaches Jesus was born with the same nature as our's. I think "sinful nature" is an NIV phrase but the actual translation is "the flesh." Anyway here are some verses about Jesus's nature in relation to ours.
"For both he that sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of one, for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren" Hebrews 2.11
"For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham" Hebrews 2.16
"Wherefore IN ALL THINGS it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God" Hebrews 2.17 Notice it says "in all things"
Paul said Jesus "was made of the seed of David according to the flesh" Romans 1.3
I think Jesus remaining sinless yet possessing our nature is all the more breathtaking then if he was given some advantage over us which we could'nt relate with.

[Guest]

Steve-- i may have missed it- but did you address Micah's inquiry regarding the necessity of the virgin birth? i suppose we could conclude the virgin birth showed that Jesus was God's son and not tie any other significance to it; however I have always understood it as a way of Jesus getting around the "sin nature" problem, as Micah does.

what are your thoughts?

TK

[Guest]

All I know is that Jesus had a human nature, and that He was tempted in all points such as we, yet without.

Whether He had the fallen human nature but overcame it, or whether He did not have it, being in the same position as Adam prior to the fall (that is, without the tendency to sin), I have not yet discovered. If anyone thinks he knows and can show clear scriptural evidence for his position, I would appreciate the opportunity to learn.

[karenstricycle]

Would not the fact of virgin birth be seen as miraculous and refute any claim Jesus had a human father? Jesus had a human mother, and would have had a the same human nature regardless of whether his mother was a virgin or not.

It would seem the sin nature would only be affected by the nature of His mother, i.e. she would have to be sinless as the Catholics claim.

[Guest]

Steve-- i may have missed it- but did you address Micah's inquiry regarding the necessity of the virgin birth? i suppose we could conclude the virgin birth showed that Jesus was God's son and not tie any other significance to it; however I have always understood it as a way of Jesus getting around the "sin nature" problem, as Micah does.

TK, I think you could ask the same question about Jesus's healings. After all his mission was to fulfill the law by living a sinless life and suffer and die for our sins so what were the healings for? Well part of being sinless i guess is to "do good" and healing is certainly that but mainly because scripture said the Messiah would heal people which was to be a SIGN of the Messiah and Jesus said "all that is written must be fulfilled." Maybe the virgin birth had to fulfill Isa 7.14 which was to be a SIGN of the Messiah and maybe it was symbolic of the sinless and pure and undefiled life Jesus was to live.
You know getting back to whether Jesus was born with our nature, since he became our substitute it seems to me he had to be like us yet in order to qualify as the propitiation for all of mankind he had to be divine. Maybe the birth through the Holy Spirit yet also through a fallen human was the only way for Jesus to be both.

[Guest]

Homer--

i've read your last post a few times and i think you may have left a phrase out somewhere, because i am not exactly sure what you are saying. Can you re-phrase it for me? please excuse my density. i've only had one cup of coffee.

TK

[karenstricycle]

TK,

I agree, it was a little confusing. I rewrote it, hope its clearer.

Perhaps if I write like that people will think I'm smart. I read when Kerry ran for president he said a lot of things that were hard to understand and, although his IQ was supposedly lower than Bush (from evaluation of their tests in the military), people thought he must be smart because they couldn't understand what he was saying!

[Guest]

Homer wrote:

Would not the fact of virgin birth be seen as miraculous and refute any claim Jesus had a human father? Jesus had a human mother, and would have had a the same human nature regardless of whether his mother was a virgin or not.

It would seem the sin nature would only be affected by the nature of His mother, i.e. she would have to be sinless as the Catholics claim.

This is true only if God used one of Mary's own eggs to produce Jesus. The bible doesn't seem to tell us that much information. As far as we know, the baby Jesus may or may not have had Mary's DNA at all. She may have been merely the conduit God chose to bring His Son into the world. Jesus may have been the first actual "test tube" baby.

I hope that doesn't sound too irreverant.

[Guest]

Genesis 3
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."

Chris, I think that puts the kibosh on tha idea.