Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

[Singalphile]

"Take sex off the table..."?

How do you take sex off the table when discussing homosexuality? I've read many articles trying to defend homosexual behavior using the Bible, and so I can understand why someone in that position would want to try to shift the discussion onto other grounds (off into the "goat trails" as Homer said). Imo, to affirm homosexual behavior is to deny that Paul wrote Romans (at least), and/or that Paul was an authoritative apostle of Jesus, and/or that Jesus' appointed apostles knew better than us modern men, and/or the Lord Jesus Himself, I'm afraid.

Here's another article (3/22/2013) about Rob Bell's views: http://www.christianpost.com/news/rob-b ... ers-92395/

The past affirmation or normalization of immoral behavior - involving pornography, fornication, divorce - has hurt so many, just about everyone in some way, I would say. It's very sad to see someone seeming to encourage more of that sort of thing. On the other hand, I see some other good, encouraging changes in my own circle and even in society at large (though I admit that my circle is small and I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of the mainstream). Maybe the push for the acceptance of this particular sin is a last gasp rather than the final straw. It's not exactly a popular sin, at least. There will be opportunities to do good through it all, I'm sure.

[morbo3000]

"Take sex off the table..."?

How do you take sex off the table when discussing homosexuality?

Simple. Talk about love. Stop talking about sex, and start talking about love. What is the biblical critique against a woman falling in love with a woman? If we grant the argument against lust.. what is the argument against love?

[steve7150]

Singalphile wrote:"Take sex off the table..."?

How do you take sex off the table when discussing homosexuality?



Simple. Talk about love. Stop talking about sex, and start talking about love. What is the biblical critique against a woman falling in love with a woman? If we grant the argument against lust.. what is the argument against love?






Love is a different topic than sex. Sex is a big topic in the bible and it is clear about homosexuality. Our culture is one thing with it's ever shifting values and the kingdom of God is a different thing. A man can love another man but God does not want him to have sex with that man and it covers women with women too.

[Singalphile]

What steve7150 said, that's what I would say about that.

I wonder how Mr. Bell and others who are like-minded (though I'm still not sure what he is saying) deals with the NT teaching about marriage. Who is the head of a "gay marriage" * (Eph 5:23, 1 Peter 3)? Paul condemns homosexual behavior in Romans 1 but in 1 Corinthians 7 he teaches that married couples ought not deprive one another, thus essentially commanding homosexuality? Can a man in a monogamous "gay marriage" be an elder? The husband of one husband?

There are other issues maybe. It seems like things get a bit awkward when words get redefined contrary to Biblical teaching.

(* I'm using quotes around "gay marriage", because it's not a word coupling that I would use because I think it's a nonsensical oxymoron. I'm quoting those who do use it.)

[morbo3000]

@singalphile

Interesting questions. As the apologist on the subject, I'll have to think about that.

This issue, gay marriage and homosexuality, are something that my wife and I are still talking about a lot. We don't take it lightly. Which I guess is part of why I want to talk about it here. So that y'all know that Rob Bell and their like aren't just throwing this issue around. We believe we are taking scripture seriously.

She actually brought up this very question last night: if Christ represents the bridegroom, and the church the bride, what does that mean in a gay marriage. I had an idea, though I need to think it through some more. Because it is a good question, as is the one you brought up.

To be fair, I think that very issue needs to be asked of the heterosexual evangelical community as well. I don't know what "headship" looks like in 21st century American marriages. I don't think I see it in the marriages I know.

[brody196]

Interesting questions. As the apologist on the subject, I'll have to think about that.

This issue, gay marriage and homosexuality, are something that my wife and I are still talking about a lot. We don't take it lightly. Which I guess is part of why I want to talk about it here. So that y'all know that Rob Bell and their like aren't just throwing this issue around. We believe we are taking scripture seriously.

She actually brought up this very question last night: if Christ represents the bridegroom, and the church the bride, what does that mean in a gay marriage. I had an idea, though I need to think it through some more. Because it is a good question, as is the one you brought up.

To be fair, I think that very issue needs to be asked of the heterosexual evangelical community as well. I don't know what "headship" looks like in 21st century American marriages. I don't think I see it in the marriages I know.

You mention in the above that you and others who share similar views on this subject are "taking the scriptures seriously", then why, may I ask is it that those on your side always resort to arguments that undermine scriptural authority? We have in scripture a unified agreement between both testaments that homosexual practice is sin, of which there was never a question until recent years.

Another question I have for you is this: Do you believe that the gospel is powerful enough to free one from a homosexual lifestyle? In other words, could a man who feels that scripture condemns homosexuality, be freed from the urge to be gay through the gospel?

[steve7150]

She actually brought up this very question last night: if Christ represents the bridegroom, and the church the bride, what does that mean in a gay marriage. I had an idea, though I need to think it through some more. Because it is a good question, as is the one you brought up.

To be fair, I think that very issue needs to be asked of the heterosexual evangelical community as well. I don't know what "headship" looks like in 21st century American marriages. I don't think I see it in the marriages I know.







I think we need to remember Christ and his bride are a spiritual union and is never used as a model for a homosexual union. Christ is the head of the church yet he gave his life for others just as the husband is the head yet he must sacrifice for his wife and family. It's not an authoritative emphasis but a sacrificial one although the authority vested in Christ and in the husband is to benefit the wife and family not for the benefit of the authority.
I think it's a mistake to try to reinterpret the bible to fit the current values of our culture. Sometimes believing the bible may make the believer take an unpopular position like pro-life or against gay marriage but we should remember that God can see the end from the beginning and we see as through a dark glass therefore what seems right to most may result in unintended consequences that we can't foreknow.

[darinhouston]

Another question I have for you is this: Do you believe that the gospel is powerful enough to free one from a homosexual lifestyle? In other words, could a man who feels that scripture condemns homosexuality, be freed from the urge to be gay through the gospel?

I don't think those two questions are the same. The answer to the first is an emphatic -- YES. The restatement introduces freedom from the urges of "being gay." Maybe, maybe not. But, we all have urges which are in varying degrees inappropriate and sinful, and yes we can choose not to act on them and to discipline our minds and our urges and in time diminish them and replace them with more sanctifying reactions and urges, even if incompletely. True and full deliverance from urges may or may not come in our lifetime, but we are commanded to seek to control them and are expected to do so and enabled by the Holy Spirit and the communion/fellowship of the saints to do so.

[mattrose]

Another question I have for you is this: Do you believe that the gospel is powerful enough to free one from a homosexual lifestyle? In other words, could a man who feels that scripture condemns homosexuality, be freed from the urge to be gay through the gospel?

I don't think those two questions are the same. The answer to the first is an emphatic -- YES. The restatement introduces freedom from the urges of "being gay." Maybe, maybe not. But, we all have urges which are in varying degrees inappropriate and sinful, and yes we can choose not to act on them and to discipline our minds and our urges and in time diminish them and replace them with more sanctifying reactions and urges, even if incompletely. True and full deliverance from urges may or may not come in our lifetime, but we are commanded to seek to control them and are expected to do so and enabled by the Holy Spirit and the communion/fellowship of the saints to do so.

I agree.

A key in approaching this issue, I think, is distinguishing between homosexual inclinations and homosexual behaviors. We all have sinful inclinations which we can't easily (if at all) control. But we certainly can control our behaviors. We choose what to do.

[brody196]

Another question I have for you is this: Do you believe that the gospel is powerful enough to free one from a homosexual lifestyle? In other words, could a man who feels that scripture condemns homosexuality, be freed from the urge to be gay through the gospel?

I don't think those two questions are the same. The answer to the first is an emphatic -- YES. The restatement introduces freedom from the urges of "being gay." Maybe, maybe not. But, we all have urges which are in varying degrees inappropriate and sinful, and yes we can choose not to act on them and to discipline our minds and our urges and in time diminish them and replace them with more sanctifying reactions and urges, even if incompletely. True and full deliverance from urges may or may not come in our lifetime, but we are commanded to seek to control them and are expected to do so and enabled by the Holy Spirit and the communion/fellowship of the saints to do so.

Thanks for correcting what I posted. I agree with with what you said. I think I was trying to argue against the notion that "gay people are born that way and cannot control their emotions" thus arguing that the gospel does not have the ability to change a persons will, etc..