Steve's response to challenges raised by Mark & Dusman

[Guest]

For me though I dont believe in once saved always saved,
I'd like to live as though I'm correct to keep me on straight and narrow.
IF its not true why try after all I'm saved! I sure hope my prodigal son is
pre-destined (cant even spell it) Otherwise, Im not going to be happy.

John 3:16 tells me!

[Guest]

Well theres good Chrisitan people on both sides of the debate. On eternal security of the believer I believe its eternal and as a believer I think that means one whose born again. I refer to that Ironside post I put up only because he expresses my beleifs on it. I think that if we do go into sin we pay a terrible price,break Gods heart, get out of fellowship with Him,and face His discipline but not to the point where He revokes your new birth and salvation. I believe God is able to hold onto what is His and that as a child of His we really are His forever. I can see everyone already at thier key boards typing in thier pet anti once saved always saved verses. I will refrain from typing in the ones I choose to support my position,its been done before.Im just sharing my feelings over my morning cup of Java on a day off. Ive fallen away twice in my 31 one years with the Lord and the Lord brought me back,I wish I could say I did it on my own...but that would be a lie. During that time of dryness and condition, even though I was down to my last drop of living water, He sustained me and kept me from perishing. He also restored my spirit upon my repentence and flooded me with His love and acceptance. To me people who walk away and never come back were never saved and to me that explains why God couldnt keep them...for they were never His. Jesus said His sheep shall never perish and I beleive Him. I respect others oppinions and it doesnt bother me nor do I feel compelled to change thier minds and hearts.Its fun to debate but even that gets old after awhile...and I find myself wanting to encourage someone...like Damon.


Lord Bless you

Steve

[Guest]

thank you Crusader (Steve) for your postings, I do miss some fellowship
( not hello how are you) and appreciate a place to go to share testimonies,
prayers etc.

In this world ye SHALL have tribulation but be of good cheer I have overcome the world.

[Guest]

I thought I was having a theological debate, but instead I am just being shunned. No problem.

And what the Supra and Infra debate has to do with libertarian free will I have no idea. No Calvinist would ever utter such a thing.

Anyways, I was here to debate some issues and not get involved in personal ad Hom.

My motives are being questioned too, in as much as apparently I have no pity or some such thing for unbelievers. Is that fair?

I say pride is linked to Free will because salvation is by grace, and not by libertarian free will. To assert libertarian free will is to make salvation by man's will and not God's will.
It is one sinner making a better choice over another sinner. What is the difference then between them? It cannot be an act of God or grace alone, so it must be an act of man. Ie, man doing something other men do not do.

Or as Steve said above,

For the record (not speaking for anyone other than myself), I am not proud of making the right decision for God (in fact, I am ashamed of how many wrong decisions I have made and still make). Pride has nothing to do with my choosing to believe in Christ. For me, the right decision—given the mighty incentives and persuasions that God brought into my life—was a no-brainer. Nothing to congratulate myself about.

It is all about "our choice" or "my decision" etc. Whereas scripture clearly teaches the opposite!
The closest he gets to grace is accounting to God "persuasions and incentives", but that is not grace.
What good are they unless "we" make them real. It still comes back to "us" in the end and not God's grace alone.

No Calvinist denies we must believe and have faith, but we never give a crumb to our will in the salvation of our soul, not a crumb.
And we certainly go a lot further than attributing to God mere powers of persuasion that can only be effectual if man brings something to the table.

John 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I am not flippant either when I engage in these discussions, nor am I interested in personality fights. Crack open the Word, and I am happy to post for the benefit of others and not necessarily the person I am debating, especially if said person is in errors of misrepresenting the other persons position. I let the readers or audience decide.

Anyway, I tried to interact here in an intelligent and yet serious way, but to little effect so far.

Blessings
Mark

[Guest]

I apologize for my ignorance because I dont debate!
Since when are these posts to be whipping blocks
and discussions of being put down.
Maybe army you oughta either address Steve G
or re-read your opinions

[Guest]

Hi Mark [tartanarmy],

I'm sorry if you feel ignored. My only reason for saying nothing to you recently is that you haven't said anything new for me to respond to. You only keep saying the same things that have already been refuted. If you don't care for the points that have been made in refuting you, there is little else that I can do, except to keep going in circles or to bow out until such a time as something new is brought up. I don't have the time, nor the inclination, for the former.

Everything you have said here has been more than adequately answered by various posters, including myself, elsewhere in this forum. If you wish to know how I would answer your arguments, I am on record. You can read what I have said.

[Guest]

Hi Steve,
Has Gene Cook contacted you already regarding your your TULIP debate?

God bless!

Richard

[Guest]

Hi Richard,

No, I have not heard from him lately about a debate, but I would enjoy having one with him. He and I had wanted to follow-up with another debate, but I have kind of dropped the ball. Since last time Gene and I debated, I have been very busy with travel and other responsibilities. I am still very busy--too busy to initiate or organize a debate--but if he (or someone else) wants to do the planning and "legwork", I'll gladly show up!

Blessings!

[Guest]

It is all about "our choice" or "my decision" etc. Whereas scripture clearly teaches the opposite!

If there were no choice then there would be no condemnation. Nor would salvation be salvation. What would we be saved from? God?

The closest he gets to grace is accounting to God "persuasions and incentives", but that is not grace.
What good are they unless "we" make them real. It still comes back to "us" in the end and not God's grace alone.

No Calvinist denies we must believe and have faith, but we never give a crumb to our will in the salvation of our soul, not a crumb.
And we certainly go a lot further than attributing to God mere powers of persuasion that can only be effectual if man brings something to the table.

You're right, our will does not decide the salvation of our soul. God has already decided. It's explained in John 3:16-21
So, faith is not the cause of our salvation, nor is belief a result of salvation but the prerequisite of salvation to be given.

If I give my daughter a bike for getting A's, the A's and her effort were not the cause of her getting a bike. I am the cause. I made the offer. And even if she gets A's, she can't go to the local bike shop and demand a bike! Because she didn't earn the bike. It was a free gift, available only through me. Nor can she claim she earned a bike. She didn't earn anything.

The interesting thing is you claim Steve is in error for what you would call, maybe, taking credit for his belief. Yet you seem to be patting yourself on the back by giving no credit to yourself. A very strange statement. You are commending yourself for not commending yourself. Interesting logic.

Remember Abraham believed God and it was reconed to him by God for righteousness.

Abraham did the believing, which count's for, well nothing. But God showing His love and mercy accounted him righteous. Having faith is not a righteous act or "work". It's nothing of any value really, but God graciously stamps us "not guilty" for it, because of the work His Son has performed in our place.

[Guest]

Steve, you said,
"Paul is telling us that salvation itself (not faith) “is the gift of God, not of works.” Otherwise we would have to posit that Paul was concerned to counter false teachers who were claiming that faith itself was “of works” (i.e., the result of works)—not very likely, since no one has ever been known to advocate such a doctrine! "

However, the Arminian teaches that faith is self-generated, thus he may boast in his works. THIS IS WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS...

" Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. " Jn 6:29