Why is it in your belief that it is just to send people to hell, but not for eternity? What makes it just to keep them in there for a while, but not eternally? I’m not asking for your personal feelings and biases, what I’m asking for is Biblical proof. You show verses that God desires all to be saved, okay, but how does that tell us people will not spend eternity in hell? Your emotions get in the way and you derive that there is no eternal hell because God is too loving. You cannot say that an eternal hell makes the punishment worse, because God can make an eternal hell the same level of punishment as that of a temporal hell.
I cannot prove that an eternal hell is more just than a temporal hell, but I do know what the Bible states. I’m not about to side for a temporal hell, because my emotions tell me an eternal hell is unjust, which my emotions do not btw. What does the Bible say?
Jesus stated that those who reject Him will not follow Him. (John 8:21-24)
Jesus stated that those who reject Him will not see life. What do people get instead of life – wrath (John 3:36).
Jesus stated unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God (John3:3) Show me a verse that tells us a person can be born again in hell.
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Mat. 25:46) I’m aware that the Greek word translated as eternal, to some, does not necessarily mean eternal. However, why does the word ‘eternal’ life mean exactly that, eternal life, while ‘eternal’ punishment does not mean eternal punishment? The same Greek word used for ‘eternal’ punishment is used for ‘eternal’ life. Why then would you assume that the punishment in hell is not eternal?
In mark 3:28-29, Jesus states there is an unforgivable sin. If there is an unforgivable sin, how will one get into heaven?
In Luke 13:22-27, the disciples ask Jesus, “are there just a few who are being saved?” Jesus shows that there will be people confessing Him as Lord when it is too late, and does the Lord let them in the kingdom? No, they are shut outside and told to depart, with absolutely no implication of a future chance to get in. This would have been a perfect time for Jesus to promote the idea of universalism as His disciples prompt the question. For some, that may be hard to swallow, but you cannot malign scripture to mold around your own feelings.
What does the Bible say? Does the Bible say people can be saved in hell? Does the Bible say hell is not eternal? Does the Bible say God WILL save all people or does it say he desires to save all people?
Has God always carried out His desires? The answer is no. Did God desire all the horrific things that have happened in the world? Did God stop these things from happening?
You view God as vengeful against sinners who punishes them forever is hell, while I view God as a loving Father who corrects His children.
Who are His children? All mankind are not God’s children. Jesus corrected the Jews in John 8:44 and stated their father was not God, but the devil. Furthermore, God’s forgiveness is only upon those who express faith in Christ, everyone else, as John 3:36 tells us has God’s wrath abiding on him/her. You’re basing you theological beliefs on your feelings and not what the Bible says. The Bible is replete with accounts of His loving character, but it is also full of His wrath like nature.
God is continually a God of wrath just as He is a God of love. In Romans 1 we see that God’s wrath is continually reveled from heaven. Wrath is intrinsically and continually part of His character just as love is. The Hebrew word Hara is used 91 times and it refers to becoming heated, to burning with fury, and is frequently used of God. Haron is used 41 times, and it refers exclusively to divine anger and means “a burning, fierce wrath”. David declared that “God is a righteous judge, and a God who has indignation every day” (Ps. 7:11). “indignation” translates za’am, which means to foam at the mouth, and is used over 20 times in the OT, often of God’s wrath.
I could pull out a deluge of verses demonstrating God’s wrath, and I’m sure you would say I view God as a vengeful God. But all the while my opinion would be absent - I’m just showing you verses. I’m not stating, “I feel or God to me is a God of whatever”. God’s wrath is nothing like man’s anger. Orge (wrath) refers to a settled, determined indignation, not to the momentary, emotional, and often uncontrolled anger (thumos) to which human beings are prone.
Any punishment that happens after death is meaningless and serves no purpose.
Here again you’re basing your theological beliefs on your own intuition. Whether you or I believe it serves no purpose does not change what God has laid out in scripture.
"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.” Luke 13:28
Where and when will these people experience this, before death, after death?
In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-33 you can clearly see that this is after death. Let’s map this out –
“Lazarus dies”
“carried to Abraham’s bosom’
“he is being comforted here”
“rich man also died”
“In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment”
“he cried out and said . . . have mercy on me”
“I am in agony in this flame’
So far we can see this is after death and the rich man is in agony and in flames begging for mercy and does God forgive the rich man and eventually let him in the kingdom?
“And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those WHO WISH to come over from here WILL NOT be able to, and that none may cross over from there to us.” v.26
Further on the rich man knows his kin must repent, and therefore he is aware that repentance is needed for salvation, but it is too late for him as verse 26 denotes. In this parable we can see that punishment does occur after death, and those in punishment cannot cross over, thus showing hell is eternal. Give us scripture to support the view that punishment after death is serves no purpose. God is love does not mean there will be no punishment after death nor does it imply hell is not eternal.
The lake of fire is the SECOND death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Rev 20:15
Does this verse or the context in which it is found suggest this happens during a person’s life? What is the lake of fire and does this occur after or during a person’s life?
When the Apostle Paul said that Jesus is the “Savior of all men, especially of them who believe,” was he wrong? Should he have said “only of them who believe”?
Much of the following was taken from John Macarthur, but don’t attribute it all to him if there is a mistake in my theology.
The word ‘savior’ does not always refer to salvation. God is the savior of all men in the sense that unbelievers get to enjoy His glory everyday. God is the savior of all men in the sense that he allows people to be depraved and reject Him and yet He still bestows the graces of this life upon them. The grace that is given to an unbeliever is the grace that has God hold His instant and immediate wrath.
The soul that sinneth dies, the wages of sin are death, how long should a sinner live? A sinner shouldn’t be allowed to live, but God allows it in this life. In a very broad sense, God is the savior of all men – He provides food, He provides life, He provides relationships, He provides healing, He provides grace and mercy for not giving them what they instantly deserve. God is a savior to unbelievers in that sense, but not in the spiritual sense.
Isaiah 63 verse 8, God is the ‘Savior’ of Israel. Was God the savior of the whole nation Israel? In what sense was God the savior of the whole nation? He was the savior of that nation in a temporal manner.
God took them out of Egypt, He provided food, physical sustenance, and when they sinned He was merciful. In a very broad sense, God showed himself to be a provider, sustainer, deliverer, and savior of the nation Israel.
In verse 9 of Isaiah 63, “In all their affliction He was afflicted, and the angel of His presence saved them; in His love and in His mercy He redeemed them.” In what sense did God redeem this nation? God redeemed this nation not in the spiritual sense, not in the salvation sense, but He cared for them, He bought them out of Egypt, He bore them, He carried them all the days of old, but they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy.
God was the savior of the whole nation in a temporal sense, but in a spiritual sense only a few were saved. This is the very analogy Paul is using in 1 Timothy. Paul is saying that we have seen God provide and sustain on a world wide basis, we have seen His great wide temporal provision for men, but that provision is especially glorious to the believer; for it is not only temporal, it is also eternal.
Father of five, you can’t seem to reconcile yourself to what the Bible says on hell and therefore you seek out a view that does reconcile the issue in your mind, but in doing so you malign scripture. This is clearly evident when you took Eph 1:9-10 totally out of context to support your feelings.
False teachers do this all the time. Let’s say I feel Christians shouldn’t work, I can mold scripture to my feelings, totally ignoring the context and the whole of what the Bible says. This is exactly what you’re doing. A person’s knowledge will be limited if they are not in submission to all of scripture.
People will believe anything as long as it's not found in the Bible.
