Ask an atheist—but don't expect any straight answers!

[Guest]

The statement that there is a "goodness gene" wired into man does not fly in the face of history. Look at virtually any society that does not have Christian roots and what has been called acceptable is not good. The arenas in the Roman Empire, human sacrifice in most of the B.C. civilizations, The complete lack of regard of women as human beings (which still is true in muslim countries today). In most of the Muslim based countries woman are considered property. They are not allowed to vote, drive a car, or do much of anything without a man's permission. Take a close look at China and its way of dealing with female children(put to death if a male child was desired). Watch the movie "The End of the Spear". The primitive tribes in the isolated jungles of the world do not rise above the violent "I kill you, you kill me" mentality without outside intervention. Man left to his own devises does not tend toward good, our own country included. Does anybody out there honestly believe that America is a safer, better place to live than it was years ago? Why do we have to have policemen patroling our schools and parents can't let their children walk the streets without fear if man is inclined to do the right thing? I don't know a single person who has ever had to teach their child to do wrong. We all have to be taught to do what is right. We will not do the right thing if someone does not tell us "No, that is unacceptable behavior. Here is what is right". If there is not an objective source of truth, then truth is subjective. The best we can hope for is that the particular society we live has the same idea of right and wrong that we do. Nazi Germany is a perfect example. If I happened to be of the proper lineage then life was good. If I happened to be Jewish, Black,ect. then life wasn't so good. Hitler was voted in and supported by the majority so who can say the Nazis were wrong? If life is random chance only temporal then you have no right to say anyone is wrong about anything. Let the majority rule and hope with everything in you that the majority chooses to side with you. As for me, I choose to way all the scientific, archeological, and philosofical evidence and believe there is a God who is all good all the time. I choose eternity with Him and His ideals. The worst that happens is you are right and I missed out on a few so called pleasures by following the teachings of Christ (His teachings, not what somebody else claims He taught). If you are wrong in your world view then you will be cut off for eternity from all that is good. You will get to spend eternity with the Hitlers, Saddams, Osamas and in your veiw Goerge Bushs of the world. The is not a chance that I am willing to take. If the Biblical viewpoint is correct I pray that your spiritual eyes will be opened and you will see God as He is and choose an eternity of joy and happiness.

[Guest]

homewardbound, an Atheist would respond to that last point (Pascal's Wager) by arguing that there are other possibilities, like Islam being true. In that case, you'd spend eternity in hell being prodded with a fork because it brings Allah pleasure.

This argument is given because most Atheists assume all religious views hold equal weight. Anthony Flew is a former Atheist (now a Deist) who said that IF one of the world religions was true, it would probably be Christianity. He said the God of the Koran is so ridiculous compared to Jesus that its not even worth comparing the two. So Pascal made a good point... if kind of does come down to Atheism or Christianity when one compares the various worldviews. Those who don't care to look into these matters see a million choices but those who have aquired a measure of knowledge concerning the various views see a more narrowed field of options.

[_Evangelion]

Besides, Hitler was a Catholic not an atheist.

Hitler was born into a Catholic family, baptized and confirmed. He even participated in communion for a while. However, he abandoned Catholicism after WWI and never looked back.

Hitler came to despise Christianity, preferring instead the nihilism of Nietzsche. He was not a Catholic, but he was not an atheist either. He was a sort of neo-mystic, embracing Nietzsche's proposition of the Übermensch and his quest for self-realisation.

From Hitler's Table Talk (a book composed largely of his dinner conversation, recorded by a Nazi stenographer) we gain an insight into his opinion of Christianity:

• Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.
  
  [...]
  
  The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that's left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic.
  
  When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.
  
  [...]
  
  The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.
  
  Christianity is a prototype of Bolshevism: the mobilisation by the Jew of the masses of slaves with the object of undermining society. Thus one understands that the healthy elements of the Roman world were proof against this doctrine.
  
  [...]
  
  It's striking to observe that Christian ideas, despite all St. Paul's efforts, had no success in Athens. The philosophy of the Greeks was so much superior to this poverty-stricken rubbish that the Athenians burst out laughing when they listened to the apostle's teaching.
  
  [...]
  
  I don't interfere in matters of belief. Therefore I can't allow churchmen to interfere with temporal affairs. The organised lie must be smashed. The State must remain the absolute master.
  
  [...]
  
  While we're on the subject, let's add that, even amongst those who claim to be good Catholics, very few really believe in this humbug. Only old women, who have given up everything because life has already withdrawn from them, go regularly to church. All that's dead wood - and one shouldn't waste one's time in concerning oneself with such brains.
  
  [...]
  
  It is deplorable that the Bible should have been translated into German, and that the whole of the German people should have thus become exposed to the whole of this Jewish mumbojumbo.
  
  So long as the wisdom, particularly of the Old Testament, remained exclusively in the Latin of the Church, there was little danger that sensible people would become the victims of illusions as the result of the studying the Bible.

Remember "Gott mit Uns"?

Gott Mit Uns was originally the motto of the Prussian emperor (subsequently inherited by the Wermacht Republic.)

It was therefore a state motto which pre-dated Hitler, and had nothing to do with his views on religion.

[Guest]

Excellent insight Ev,! 8)

[Guest]

Hi Athiest,

My question for you is pretty straightforward... why not be agnostic?

If I rejected Christ, I'd be agnositc, not an athiest as I am not sure that anybody can claim that there is no God with absolute certainty.

I've never been to India, but I've met people who say they have. If I say that India doesn't exist, I'm ignoring or disagreeing with the information that is contrary to my belief.

Likewise, if I believe there is no God, but people say that they have met Him, might I be missing something?

Tx
Les

[_Evangelion]

Excellent insight Ev,! 8)

Cheers mate.

[Guest]

If I rejected Christ, I'd be agnositc, not an athiest as I am not sure that anybody can claim that there is no God with absolute certainty.

What I'm not sure of, is that "Atheist" is indeed an atheist (in the sense that you and I are using the word, Les).

As I see it, "atheist" means "one who believes (or is 100% confident) that there is no God" or "one who claims to know that there is no God."

"Theist" means "one who believes (or is 100% confident that there is a God" or "one who claims to know that there is a God."

"Gnostic" literally means "one who knows".
"Agnostic" literally means "one who does not know"

With reference to the existence of God, an agnostic is "one who doesn't claim to know whether or not there is a God". Among agnostics there is a wide range of confidence in the proposition that there is no God. Confidence ranges from any number greater than 0% to any number less than 100%.

I heard Betrand Russel when he was over 90 years old and being interviewed. He was asked whether he thought there was any possibility whatever that God existed. He replied that he thought there was about as much probabity of the Christian God existing as there was of one of the Greek gods existing. He stated that he was not an atheist, but an agnostic. He said he was more than 95% confident that there was no God.

Most of those today who claim atheism are actually agnostics. But many of them falsely claim that the two words are synonyms.

[Guest]

[As I see it, "atheist" means "one who believes (or is 100% confident) that there is no God" or "one who claims to know that there is no God."
]

What does God say about this situation?
[[To the chief Musician, [A Psalm] of David.]] The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.]

Fool is Nabal in hebrew which means [1) foolish, senseless, fool
] and is also translated as foolish or vile person too.

So God says those who say no God are fools. Those who are so educated today and look at nature and the miracle of life and say no God are fools.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

These verses remind me of the "enlightened" ones in the new age movement and the "enlightedned ones" into eastern religions who worship many Gods and especially the higher order of "enlightened ones" who college has programmed to believe their is no God. To those who that think all we see just happend without a creator and think that man is all there is are fools.

Bottom line is athiest=fool.

[_Evangelion]

[As I see it, "atheist" means "one who believes (or is 100% confident) that there is no God" or "one who claims to know that there is no God."]

What does God say about this situation?
[[To the chief Musician, [A Psalm] of David.]] The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.]

Fool is Nabal in hebrew which means [1) foolish, senseless, fool] and is also translated as foolish or vile person too.

So God says those who say no God are fools. Those who are so educated today and look at nature and the miracle of life and say no God are fools.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

These verses remind me of the "enlightened" ones in the new age movement and the "enlightedned ones" into eastern religions who worship many Gods and especially the higher order of "enlightened ones" who college has programmed to believe their is no God. To those who that think all we see just happend without a creator and think that man is all there is are fools.

Bottom line is athiest=fool.

Well, that's sure going to do wonders for the atheist/Christian dialogue.

[Guest]

Evangelion, It will do wonders for the dialogue!

Hopefully the atheist will come to realize there is a God and the Christian will not continue to cater to such foolishness. What fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? This fellow has heard nearly everything over and over but has he ever been boldly told the truth about himself. I am sure he is forever hearing but never coming to the knowledge of truth. Sixteen years, He claims.

I asked Him in a previous post what does being a christian meen to him, and no response. He also stated that he was a christian before he was an athiest and I asked him how that was so and he has not responded yet.

He gets off on these strange beliefs and things that has no relevence what so ever to life and the reality of it. I am glad someone told him the reality of his life. The reality of it all is that with out belief in God and Jesus his Son, this man will perish and God is not willing and neither am I that he should perish and I hope he comes to repentence.

Why is it , you are quick to rebuke a brother over truth but will not rebuke an athiest who says their is no God?