But its pertinent to the whole discussion
If you will keep in mind the difference between an apostate and a backslider, it will save you a lot of trouble over many Scriptures. The apostate knows all about Christianity but never has been a real Christian. The backslider is a person who has known Christ, who did love Him, but became cold in his soul, lost out in his spiritual life. There is not a Christian who has not often been guilty of backsliding. That is why we need the Lord as our advocate to restore our souls. When backslidden, it is not our union with Him that is destroyed, but it is our communion. You may say, “Why are you so sure that a real Christian does not apostatize?” Because God says so in His Word. 1 John 2:18: “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” Antichrist means “opposed to Christ.” The apostate is always a man opposed to Christ. A man says, “I have tried it all, and there is nothing in it,” and so denounces Christ. “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” The words “no doubt” are in italics and really cast a doubt. Leave those words out for they do not belong in the Greek text, and read it, “They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us.” And then he adds, “They went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not altogether (that is the literal rendering) of us” (1 John 2:19). In other words, they were with us in profession, in outward fellowship, but not altogether of us, because they had never really been born of God. This also explains Hebrews 10 which is the next passage brought up here as an objection.
Question 12 – Hebrews 10:28-29
Explain Hebrews 10:28-29: “He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” People are troubled here, for they say, “Well, this man was surely a Christian, because it says that he was sanctified.”
That does not necessarily prove that he was a Christian. The whole nation of Israel was sanctified by the blood of the covenant; in a certain sense the whole world has been sanctified by the blood of the cross. If it were not for that blood shed on Calvary’s cross the whole world would be doomed to eternal judgment, but because Jesus died for the entire world God says, “Now, I can deal with all men on the ground of the blood of the cross,” and, as we often put it, the great question between God and man today is not primarily the sin question. Why? Because the blood of Christ answers for sin. What is the great question? It is the Son question: How are you treating God’s Son who died to save you? Christ has died for all men, His blood is shed for the salvation of all men, and it will avail for every sinner in all the world if they trust Him. (See John 3:18-19.)
Here is this Hebrew who has followed along to a certain point, and now the question comes, “Will you confess this Christ as your one great sin offering no matter what it means?” And he answers, “No, I cannot do that. I am going back to the temple. There is a sin offering there, and I will not have to suffer as I may if I confess Jesus Christ.” But he cannot do that. God does not accept any more that “there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.” “If we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.” “There remaineth no other sacrifice for sins: is the true meaning. This sacrifice at the altar was commanded by God. He said, “If you sin, you must bring a sacrifice, and I will accept you.” “The life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul” (Leviticus 17:11). “All right,” this Jew says, “I have a sin offering.” But he has met Jesus Christ or heard of Him as the great sin offering; he knows that God accepted Him and raise Him from the dead; he has all this knowledge, but having it all he is afraid to come out definitely and confess Christ as his Savior. He says, “I do not need this sin offering; I will go back and be content with the sin offering of the temple.” Before Jesus came, that was acceptable because it pointed to Him, but now He has come. If you reject Him, there remains no other offering. This passage, you see, has nothing to do with a real Christian turning from Christ, but with a man thoroughly instructed who refuses to accept Him. And how many people there are, not only among the Jews but in Christendom, who are refusing this sin offering.
Question 13 – Luke 9:61-62
The next passage brought up is Luke 9:61-62: “And another also said, Lord, I will follow Thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”
What a terrible thing it would be if this were the way into heaven! How many thousands of earnest Christian people there are who have allowed what they thought was their responsibility to their friends to keep them from fully following Christ. Suppose they went to heaven only on the ground of fully following Him. You see, these Jews were looking for the kingdom, and many said, “I will follow Thee, but my friends have a claim on me.” “No, the Lord says, “I must come first. No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God” That is the test of discipleship. But it is necessary to distinguish between salvation by grace and reward for faithful discipleship. The rewards are connected with the kingdom. No matter how faithful I may be as a Christian, it does not give me any better place in heaven than if I were taken there the moment I was saved. Suppose the very instant you were converted you dropped dead--would you have gone to heaven? Yes, you would have gone there on the ground of God’s delight in the work of His Son. Suppose you were converted fifty years ago. There have been ups-and-downs in your life, but you have been saved all those years. Where would you go if you died suddenly? You would go to heaven. On what ground? On the ground of God’s delight in the work of His Son. There is not a bit of change in fifty years. “But,” you say, “I have been a wonderfully faithful Christian.” Have you, indeed? I am surprised that you should think so. The more we serve Him, the more most of us feel how unfaithful we have been. But you insist, “I have been a very faithful Christian.” Does that make you any more fit for heaven than you were the moment you trusted Jesus? You ask, “Does faithfulness as a disciple go for nothing?” It goes for a great deal, but it has no saving merit. You have a place in the Father’s house on the ground of pure grace, but the Father’s house is not the only thing before us. There is also the kingdom of God. “Then shall the righteous shine forth in the kingdom of their Father.” And here there are different rewards according to the measure of faithfulness in this life.
Here was one to whom the Lord said, “I want you to follow Me to Africa or India,” and he said, “O Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. I have an old father here and cannot bear to leave him as long as he lives. After he is dead, I am willing to follow Thee.” And the Lord says, “Let the dead bury their dead.” Of course, if he had the responsibility of providing for his father, that would be a different thing. Because that man has not the faith and courage to make that break, does he cease to be a Christian? He may stay at home, he may be of great value and great use, but when he comes to the judgment seat of Christ there is a reward he might have had that he will not have, because he did not go the whole way with the Lord Jesus Christ. If going the whole way entitled men to heaven, none of us would ever get there. But as we go the whole way, as far as we understand, He is going to reward us. If people could learn to see the difference between salvation by grace and reward for service, this question would settle itself. From this point on, most of these objections really have to do with this very fact.
Question 14 – Hebrews 3:12-14
The next passage is Hebrews 3:12-14: “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called Today; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end.” That is one of the “if” verses. Another one is found in I Corinthians 15:1-2: “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.” Another one is found in Colossians 1:21-23: “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath He reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight: if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.” I might add others to these, but here are three “ifs.”
What does the Spirit of God mean by bringing these “ifs” in? In every one of these instances He is addressing bodies of people. I stand here to address you as a body of people. If I were to ask everybody who professes to be a Christian to stand, I suppose nearly everybody would rise. Would that prove that you are all Christians? It would show that you profess to be Christians. What would prove that you really are? “If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel.” You profess to have received the gospel; you are saved if you keep in memory what has been preached unto you. If you do not, it just shows that there is no reality.
The faith here is not the faith by which you are saved, it is not the faith by which you believe; but it is that which you believe. Jude says, “Earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3). That is the body of Christian doctrine, and, if a real Christian, you will stand for that Christian doctrine to the end; but if not, you may become a Mormon, or a Christian Scientist, or a theosophist, or something like that. Then you simply show there is no reality. It is a very easy thing to say, “I am saved”; it is another thing to prove it.
Question 15 – 2 Peter 3:17
What of 2 Peter 3:17? “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye how these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.”
We come back to what we were speaking of a few minutes ago. There is always a possibility of a real Christian falling, and we need to be warned again and again. How many we have known who at one time had a bright Christian testimony but fell? They were not watchful, they were not prayerful, and they stumbled and fell. Does that mean they are lost? No, not if really born again. If born again, they have received eternal life; and if people thus fall, that is where the restoring work of the Spirit of God comes in. David fell in a most terrible way but he says, “He restoreth my soul”; and sometimes in restoring His people’s souls, God has to put them through very bitter experiences. He loves them too much to let them be happy when away from Him.
Question 16 – 2 Timothy 2:18
Explain this passage. “Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some” (2 Timothy 2:18). A writer says, “We see here the possibility of having our faith overthrown.”
That’s not what Paul is talking about. He is speaking of the faith. Again you must make the distinction. Our faith is that by which we believe. We believe God; that is faith. But we believe the truth that God has revealed to us, and that truth is the faith, and that is what has been overthrown in the mind of the professed believer in this instance. That is the same thing that you get in 1 Timothy 5:15: “For some are already turned aside after Satan.” Some real Christians do that, but what a blessed thing to know the Lord goes after them and never gives them up.
Question 17 – Hebrews 2:1
May we not let the things of God slip away from us? “Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip” (Hebrews 2:1), or, in other words, “Lest at any time we should drift away from them.”
This is the same warning again. You have listened to precious ministry from men of God who have preached the Word to you. You have had such instruction as many never have had. You will be terribly guilty if you drift away from it. You need to “continue in the things which you have learned.” But if we were all to lose our salvation every time we drifted into some erroneous thing, how serious it would be! Is there anyone here who has never done a little bit of drifting?
If sin will separate me from Christ, how much sin? How can I ever be sure how much sin? Is there a Christian here who has not sinned today? Is it not a fact that every one of us sins in thought, or word, or in deed, probably every day of our lives? Is there ever a night that you can kneel before God and say, “Lord, I thank You that I have not sinned in thought or word or deed today?” I am sure no honest Christian can say that. How far do you have to sin in order to break the link that binds you to Christ? You never could be sure that you are saved from one day to another and you would not leave any room for the restoring work of God if your salvation depended upon your personal faithfulness.
Question 18 – Revelation 2:10
What about such a Scripture as this? “Be thou faithful unto death and I, will give thee a crown of life?” (Revelation 2:10). How can you say that a man is saved for eternity when the Lord says you must be faithful to the end?
A crown of life is not salvation; it is reward. There are five crowns: the incorruptible crown for faithfully running the course; the crown of rejoicing for winning souls; the crown of righteousness for those who love His appearing; the crown of life for those who suffer for Christ; the crown of glory for those who feed the sheep and lambs of Christ’s flock. I might lose all of those crowns and yet not lose my salvation. The Word says, “If any man’s work shall be burned. . . .he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire” (1 Corinthians 3:15) But I do not want to be saved that way. I want to win the crown of life. “Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.”
Question 19 – Hebrews 10:37-39
Explain Hebrews 10:37-39: “For yet a little while, and He that shall come will come, and will not tarry. . . .If any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him.”
Look at the next verse, “But we (who? real Christians) are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” If a person has believed to the saving of the soul, there is no danger of his “drawing back unto perdition.” It is a terrible thing to be intellectually convinced and stop there.
Question 20 – Revelation 3:15-16
Now I am referred to Revelation 3:15-16, where the Lord, speaking to the church at Laodicea, says, “I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of My mouth.”
Is this an individual who has once been saved and is so no longer? The Lord is talking to a church. Did you ever see a church like the one at Laodicea, a church neither hot nor cold, one where you could not tell whether it was for Christ or against Him? And then the Lord says to that church, “Because you are just lukewarm--there is profession--but you are neither hot or cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. I won’t own you as a church at all.” That does not say that there may not be individuals in the church who are children of God, just as in the church at Ephesus. He said to them, “If you do not repent, I will remove your candlestick.” A candle, you know, is to give light.
Every time I go downtown I pass a church that D. L. Moody used to belong to. It was an evangelistic center in the city in his day, but today it is a very center of modernism and the gospel is never preached there. Every time I look at it I think of the time Moody was there and it stood firmly for the truth, and I say, “Their candlestick is removed.” There may be some true Christians in that church, some of the dear old people who were in it years ago, and maybe their membership is still there. It does not say that they are not Christians because the church as such has lost its witness for Christ.
Question 21 – 1 Peter 4:18
Here is a verse I am surprised to find used to prove the “falling away” doctrine. “If the righteous scarcely be saved where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (1 Peter 4:18).
What has that to do with the question? What is Peter saying? “The time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?” (1 Peter 4:17). I suppose that God’s children have faults. I know they have to be judged for their faults by the Father in correction, and God will deal very solemnly and seriously with them about their failures. There would be no need of judgment if they were all perfect Christians, but if God heals with His own people in this way and if the righteous be saved through difficulty, “Where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” That has nothing to do with the question of whether the Christian is saved for eternity or not.
Question 22 – John 15:1-6
John 15:1-6 is the next passage questioned. “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
This chapter is not discussing the question of eternal life but of fruit bearing. There are a great many believers who bear very little fruit for God, but all bear some fruit for Him. There are many people in the vine (and the vine speaks of profession here on earth) who bear no fruit for Him and will eventually be cut out altogether when Jesus comes. There will be no place with Him because there is no union with Him. There are no natural branches in the living vine. We are grafted in by faith. I do not know much about grafting, but I do know that it is one thing to put a graft in, and it is another thing for a graft to strike. It is one thing for a person to be outwardly linked with Him and quite another for that person to have life in Christ. What is the test that proves whether he is really in the vine? The test is if he bears fruit. All who have life bear some fruit for God. If there is no fruit, you can be sure there is no life, no real union with Christ.
Question 23 – Unconfessed Sin
Will any Christian who passes away with unconfessed sin have an opportunity to make things right after death? Is the judgment seat of Christ the time when all misunderstandings and discords among Christians will be made right?
It is questionable if any Christian ever died who did not have some unconfessed sin to his record. While sin might be confessed in a general way, who of us has ever definitely confessed all his sins? But the precious blood of Christ answers for every sin a believer has ever committed. At the judgment seat of Christ, the Lord will go over the entire life since regeneration, giving His mind about every thing, and the believer will then for the first time see each detail in the light of God’s infinite holiness. Everything there will be dealt with so that the believer’s failures will never be referred to again for all eternity.
Question 24 – The Book of Life
Is there any difference between the book of life and the Lamb’s book of life?
Yes, the book of life is the book of the living. It is the record too, of profession. From this book names may be blotted out. The Lamb’s book of life is the record of the eternal purpose of God. Names inscribed there are written from the foundation of the world. In other words, one book speaks of responsibility, the other of pure grace.
No Christian will ever have his name blotted out of the Lamb’s book of life, for all such have eternal life--which is unforfeitable and everlasting.
Henry Allan Ironside, one of this century’s greatest preachers, was born in Toronto, Canada, on October 14, 1876. He lived his life by faith; his needs at crucial moments were met in the most remarkable ways.
Though his classes stopped with grammar school, his fondness for reading and an incredibly retentive memory put learning to use. His scholarship was well recognized in academic circles with Wheaton College awarding an honorary Litt.D. in 1930 and Bob Jones University an honorary D.D. in 1942. Dr. Ironside was also appointed to the boards of numerous Bible institutes, seminaries, and Christian organizations.
“HAI” lived to preach and he did so widely throughout the United States and abroad. E. Schuyler English, in his biography of Ironside, revealed that during 1948, the year HAI was 72, and in spite of failing eyesight, he “gave 569 addresses, besides participating in many other ways.” In his eighteen years at Chicago’s Moody Memorial Church, his only pastorate, every Sunday but two had at least one profession of faith in Christ.
H. A. Ironside went to be with the Lord on January 15, 1951. Throughout his ministry, he authored expositions on 51 books of the Bible and through the great clarity of his messages led hundreds of thousands, worldwide, to a knowledge of God’s Word. His words are as fresh and meaningful today as when first preached.
Read it and weep!
Sorry its so long and its cut and pasted
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
-
_CFChristian
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:49 am
The Calvinist View of Eternal Life
Although there are a few sects that believe differently even within Calvinism, most all Calvinists agree on at least the doctrine of the Perseverance of the saints or Eternal Security. Therefore I rarely categorize these different groups, but refer to “Calvinists” only. But there are several sects that believe slightly different in at least one or more areas. There are strong Calvinists, also called “Classical Calvinist” or “True Calvinists”, which are five point Calvinists as just covered; and there are Moderate Calvinists, who have redefined the first four points slightly, but still hold strongly to the last. Many True Calvinists do not consider Moderate Calvinists to be Calvinists at all, since they do no hold as strongly to all of the first four points, whereby they are known as one-point Calvinists. In some cases there are those who are referred to as two, three or four point Calvinist’s. Then there are also many who do not claim Calvin as the successor of the belief system at all, even though they believe the same as any one of these Calvinist groups. Whatever group a person may fit into, I refer to all who teach or believe in the doctrine of Eternal Security as Calvinists, since they are the ones most responsible for this doctrine today.
Although all Calvinists fall somewhere between the strong and moderate position, many Calvinists believe the same way today as was taught by Calvin, as in this quote by well-known Bible teacher John Mac Arthur.
“Pragmatism's ally is Arminianism, the theology that denies God's sovereign election and affirms that man must decide on his own to trust or reject Christ. That places on the evangelist the burden of using technique that is clever enough, imaginative enough, or convincing enough to sway a person's decision. . . to teach or imply that human technique can bring someone to Christ is contrary to Scripture.”
Arminianism is far from Pragmatism: a practical approach to problems and affairs. Arminianism is a scriptural based theology only, not being based upon such pragmatism, or anything that just makes better sense to us. We will see later under the chapter on “The Misuse of Words and Phrases” that it is quite the opposite that takes place; that Calvinists are actually the ones guilty of what Mac Arthur has accused of Arminians.
The belief that man must decide whether or not he will be saved is not drawn from Pragmatism, but from the Word of God alone, as I will show. Although Mac Arthur says that technique cannot do any good, he himself is a Bible teacher, in which teaching in itself is a technique to persuade men to a particular belief. 1 Corinthians 1:21 says “…it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe”. Teaching is also a form of preaching. Any man who wants to teach must be able to impart into the lives of others something that will convince them of a better way than what they were previously living. Whether that is with their Christian walk, their marriage, child raising, or Bible doctrine. God gave us preachers, teachers, evangelists, and established the Church for this reason. Titus 1:9 “Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers”. Gainsayers are defined as those who dispute or refuse the truth. Even John Mac Arthur gets mail regularly from radio listeners telling how his teaching has touched them and convinced them to change their ways. There is obviously some convincing and persuading for men to receive Jesus and Bible doctrines. He will also spend much time in an effort to convince people of what he believes to be truth. God surely does the work in us, but He also will use men to persuade us as they search the scriptures.
Luke 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
The Greek word for compel is anagkazo (an-ang-kad'-zo); to necessitate:
Jesus instructed us to “compel” people to come in to salvation. This means to convince them of the necessity to be saved. They must make the choice themselves to accept or not. Jesus taught that many who are invited choose not to come. In more than one instance, men made the choice to walk away from salvation. Matthew 19:16, 17, 21, 22 “And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? (Jesus answers)…if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments…Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.” This man made the choice to walk away from the savior and remain in his life of sin and worldly possessions. The word perfect does not mean, “perfect” as we know the word. The Greek word is teleios (tel'-i-os); complete. Jesus was saying that if this man wanted to be complete in salvation, then he must be willing to put God before his possessions. This man could not do this. Nevertheless, the gospel was presented, as we do when we preach, teach, testify, or talk to others about a life in Christ. Each person will then decide whether they will accept of reject the truth. By John Mac Arthur’s own words and teaching he himself is doing what is “contrary to scripture”. While men such as this attempt to discredit the Arminian teachings, they themselves are in error to their own teaching as they are preaching and teaching what they believe to be the gospel.
Paul tells us that men were called to plant spiritual seeds in the lives of people, and to water them, so that God could cause those seeds to grow. 1 Corinthians 3:6-9 “I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.” These scriptures show how we do have a part in bringing men to salvation, through different methods. It may be the testimony of one person, or the sharing of scriptures and inviting them to Church. Then it may be the preacher that waters the seed that had been planted. But we know that it is always God who does the saving of the soul and causes that person to grow and bear fruit. We all work together with God to persuade men. Even Jesus said in John 15:5 “…for without me ye can do nothing.” We do have a part, but it is always God that does the final and lasting work in the life of a person.
Most Calvinists, like John Mac Arthur, believe in a predestination that takes away all human responsibility to make the choice ourselves. But this is not correct doctrine, which I will show by scripture throughout this study. Peter said in 1 Peter 3:15 “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:” If there is nothing at all that we can do to persuade men, then why should we bother being ready to give an answer to them that ask? It is clear that John Mac Arthur and other Calvinists have missed the clear instruction of Gods Word to do our part.
Let’s look at some scriptures that Calvinists use to support their doctrine of Eternal Security.
John 3:15 “That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
These are important and powerful scriptures that are used by all Christians to lead people to salvation through Christ Jesus. The argument would be where the scriptures say that those who believe have “Eternal” or “everlasting” life. The view of the Calvinist is that those who believe have “eternal” life unconditionally, and that a Christian cannot lose their salvation because the life that they have been given is “eternal”. And if it were possible to lose it then Jesus would not have called it “eternal” life. This is why they use the phrase “Once saved, always saved”, because salvation is eternal or everlasting. Once you have something that is eternal, you will always have it no matter what. So therefore they will stand upon scriptures such as Romans 8:35-39, which asks the question, "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Keeping this powerful portion of scripture in mind, let’s come back to it and these words “eternal” and “everlasting” in a few moments. First, let’s look at what a true believer is, as the word is used in these scriptures we just read in John 3.
The Greek word for "believeth" in these two passages of scripture is pisteuo (pistyoo o), which is translated "to have faith", "to place confidence in", or "to trust". There is no argument about the correct definition of this word. One who has faith! It is not a single act of faith or trust as most Calvinists believe, but a continuing operation of such faith and trust, so that one may be called a “believer”. This word is used is a present tense, meaning that a believer is not one who once believed, but rather one who is presently “believing”. Although a single act of faith will result in salvation, it is through continued faith that one will be saved in the end. A believer is one who is “believing” at the present time, and will continue to believe through a life of faith in Christ.
When the Bible says, “he who believes shall be saved” it literally means, “he who is believing shall be saved”. John made this clear when speaking of our abiding in Christ and living apart from sin in 2 John 9 “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” The Greek word for “abideth” is meno (men'-o); which means, “to stay”. Receiving Christ is simply not enough to secure salvation eternally. We must “abide in the doctrine of Christ”, which also means to do as He commanded and keep from sinning. Abide means to stay or continue in Christ, in which a person cannot do if he does not have the doctrine of Christ to begin with, and understand it. John is writing to Christians who already know the full experience of true salvation, explaining that if they return to sin and therefore walk away from the doctrine of Christ, they will then not have God. And without God there can be no salvation. It is only those who “abide” who have both the Father and the Son. Therefore, the believer who will obtain eternal life will be one who will “stay” in a condition of “faith” and “believing” in Christ. Otherwise, he will not have the Father and the Son, or eternal life any longer. The contrast is obvious: those who do not continue in the doctrine of Christ do not have salvation, while those who do continue do have salvation.
To be in Christ is a walk of faith. But this faith must be more than just a one-time confession, while believing that everything is okay, continuing in sin. Any person who believes in Jesus will also believe what he said and live according to His commands. This is a true faith that saves! But a person who becomes unfaithful to God and His commands will only deceive himself if he thinks he will still be saved after becoming unfaithful. If we “believe” in Jesus, then we will do what is required of every Christian, living holy before our God and savior.
A person will work for an employer because they have faith. Faith that after they have done their job they will receive a paycheck and whatever benefits have been offered to them. Most people do not work a few days and expect to get paid for the whole week, when it was expected of them to work the whole week for a whole weeks pay. If that person is not faithful to that employer, is late for work, lies on time cards, or steals merchandise; then that person would most likely be terminated. Such consequences would be because of the employee's own behavior and carelessness and not of the employers: even though the employer may have promised certain benefits with the job. Or if that person for some reason felt that they were not treated good enough, they may quit that job and go look for something else that may be more fulfilling. Either way the responsibility is placed upon the employee, not the employer.
A one-time prayer does not save a person eternally without continuing to walk in that faith any more than an hour of work deserves a weeks pay. No employee would expect such privileges from their employer; but many Christians want to believe that their single prayer of salvation saves them even if they become sinful and unfaithful to God. Jesus told a similar story in Matthew 25:14-30 about a man who while traveling entrusted three of his servants with his money (The servants being the Children of God). Two of them doubled what had been entrusted to them, while the other had taken what he had been entrusted with and buried it. When the master returned and found no profit from that servant, he took away that which he had given him at first, and that servant was to be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. He was already a servant or a child of God, and as a servant of God had the same promise of eternal life as the others, but he became careless. This servant experienced some of the benefits of the master for a season, but did not obtain salvation in the end.
God made a covenant with Abraham that his seed would be blessed and would be God’s own people. But we can read throughout the Old Testament of the many times that God rejected and judged them for their sin. Jesus Himself spoke harsh judgments upon the Pharisee’s and religious people in His days. God did not break His promise to Abraham. The people cut themselves off from God and His blessings for them because of their own sin and idolatry. As soon as they repented God would restore them and keep His covenant. God promised the Israelites the land of their inheritance after exiting from their slavery in Egypt. But because of their own sin, that generation did not receive the promise at all, except for Joshua and Caleb who both kept the faith. But even for the following generations the one time experience of crossing the Red Sea or any other supernatural event the people had experienced, or even the covenant itself made with Abraham was never enough to save them eternally. Although God had made a covenant with Abraham, this covenant was for the whole seed of Abraham. Just being a Jew by flesh made them candidates for salvation; but that was not enough, since they still had to meet the requirements of the law of God. And although our salvation is a far greater of an experience than what they had received, there is still a responsibility to live a life of faith that is pleasing to God. James says in James 2:18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works".
Many people say that they have faith and that they are right with God, while at the same time they have no works or fruits that show it. They may even quote the scripture in Ephesians 2:8,9 that says that it is by grace we are saved and not by works. But they ignore the part that says "through faith". Calvinists have done great damage to the teaching of works in the Bible. It is very important to understand that works alone cannot save us. But if in teaching this fact we ignore or refuse to acknowledge the need of works, then we do the kingdom of God great injustice. Works have their place in the gospel. Although they are without value with the absence of grace and faith, it is an active faith through works that obtains grace. The very thing that makes faith active is good works. It is important to understand the two different types of works that the Bible speaks about: one that has part in salvation, and one that only puffs up a person with pride. The difference should be obvious in scripture.
Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast". These works are negative! But yet good works are also present here with faith. James make this clear in James 2:17-26 where he tells us "faith without works is dead". In verse 24 he says "ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only". The Greek word for justify is dikaioo (dik-ah-yo'-o); "to show to be right or righteous". Calvinists commonly and consistently teach that salvation is given by “grace alone” and obtained by “faith alone”. Although there is a lot of truth in these statements that should not be disregarded, too many times they are taken too far, excluding the need of works completely. But James makes it clear that salvation is not obtained by “faith alone”, as Paul in Ephesians 2:8 made it clear that it is not obtained by “grace alone”; but salvation (grace) is obtained through this active faith. Many people say they have faith, but their faith is dead, not having works. Although God alone does the saving, it is only through works of faith that we may obtain such grace that saves.
Before we got saved we were drowning in the sea of sinfulness without hope. When Jesus threw us His rope to save us from drowning in our sin, we had to make the decision to grab a hold of the rope. Many people think that they have other ways out, or they cannot even comprehend the fact that they are drowning. Jesus throws his rope to every person, but each person must choose to grab a hold of it. Jesus will not lasso anyone! If a Person would be saved, pulled into the boat by Jesus, and then at some point later in their life fall off the ship or jump off because of the drawing of their own lusts; once again back in the sea of sinfulness; then they are again in need of salvation from their sin; drowning as their were previously. This in no way at all indicates that Christ’s blood was not able to save them eternally! Forgiveness of sins is only available under the blood of Jesus, not in the sea of sinfulness. We must continually turn to Him as our only hope for salvation! In this, faith without works is dead! A person who has returned to sin must once again admit their fault in giving in to sin, receive His forgiveness by grabbing the rope, and be pulled back into the boat. Christ made the way of salvation for all men, but we must choose to receive it! If we go overboard it is not the doing of Christ or even the separation of our relationship through any of those things mentioned in Romans 8. It is sin that separates, which is not mentioned in these verses.
It is God’s great love for man that throws us the rope. But it is our faith that believes that this is the way of being saved, and our works that grabs the rope. Faith is joined with works, lest it be dead. A person can have all the faith they think they need in order to be saved, but if they never grab the rope their faith is vain. This same kind of faith must be evident with every Christian in order to “continue” in Christ, and in His great salvation for men.
Anyone can say that they have faith in God and believe that they really do. But according to James, if they have no works, then that faith is dead and is not really faith in God at all. In order to be justified we must have true faith. Romans 5:1 “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:” If we have the true faith that justifies, it will be evident through works.
The Bible tells us that Christians must have good works. But it also tells us about those who profess to be Christians, but their works prove that they are not. Titus 1:16 “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” Good works will follow true faith, just as evil works follow faithlessness.. Faith is the evidence that we are Christians that can be seen by others through works. Hebrews 11:1 “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Faith has substance and is not empty words of profession. The evidence that a person has faith will be obvious when a person not only believes without seeing, but when they show they truly believe through a holy, faithful life to Christ.
There are three absolutes with the salvation experience. First and foremost is grace, the second would be faith, and both of these together will be linked with works so that we may be justified or rather “declared righteous”. Although works cannot save our souls alone, they are the evidence of a true “believer”. A believer is not one that just says they believe, as in Titus 1:16, but shows they believe by living it. To know Him is to walk with Him, and talk to Him, through a relationship we have with Him.
So to “believe” is not simply a mental acknowledgement of Jesus, the grace of God, and all the things of God. To “believe” is what we call true “saving faith”. It is to be “believing” continually, which also means we will do as He has commanded. Whenever the Bible uses this word in reference to people believing in Christ, it is referring to genuine saving faith and always refers only to those who are presently and continually walking in it, and in obedience to His Word. It is true that many people go to Church and call themselves Christians, when they have never been saved to begin with. Many people are very religious, but not saved. They have never truly had faith in Jesus. Most people would certainly agree that this is true of the person who has not received Jesus as Lord; that they do not truly “believe”. But it is also true of the believer who goes back into a state of not “Believing” unto good works, unto sinfulness. Not that they never believed, but rather that they stopped “believing”. This is evident by the fact that they show through their lifestyles that they do not presently have “faith” in Christ, even though they still claim to believe. They have the head knowledge of Christ, but have lost the heart for the relationship. Jesus spoke of this in His parable of the seeds and the sower in Luke 8:13-14 “They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.” These are those who have had saving faith, but they had fallen away. This is evident by the fact that He said that they did “for a while believe”. If according to Jesus’ words, one must “only believe” to be saved, these certainly did “believe” by the same definition. But because they did not continue to believe they no longer had eternal life abiding in them. Some turned to the pleasures of sin having “no fruit unto perfection”. This perfection is not salvation itself, but refers to holiness, which every Christian must obtain if they want to continue in their salvation. These people in the parable did not apply faith with works so that they might live out a new life in Christ continuously. What works they did have were choked out.
It is after these works die in the life of a Christian that they may choose to return to the old way of life, but still claim to “believe” in Jesus unto salvation. But even the demons believe in Jesus in this way. James 2:19-20 “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” So if we want to believe unto eternal life then we must continue to show our faith by how we live our lives. And while being led by the Spirit of God bring our bodies under subjection, lest we ourselves become a castaway, as the Apostle Paul mentioned in 1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway". The Greek word for castaway in this scripture is adokimos (ad-ok'-ee-mos); unapproved, i.e. rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally):
Paul uses this same word in other scriptures that refer to reprobates who are in no way saved, such as in these scriptures:
Romans 1:28 “And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;”
2 Corinthians 13:5 “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”
2 Timothy 3:8 “Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.”
Titus 1:16 “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”
Keep in mind that every one of these scriptures using the word “reprobate”, referring to those rejected by God because of their sinfulness and refusal to do as God commanded, is the same Greek word just mentioned concerning Paul becoming a “Castaway”, if he were not to discipline his life to be holy before God and men. Paul is saying that it is possible through lack of discipline in his life that Christ could possibly reject him. But we must understand that before God would ever reject a person, it is we who make the choice to do right or wrong; and if we were to fall away, it would be our own doing and not God's. James says in James 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves". It is very possible for a Christian to start off their life of faith with good works following, and then later on find themselves in a place where their faith is dead, because works are no longer present. They then begin to deceive themselves, attempting to justify sin in their lives, while refusing to change their backslidden condition.
Just as faith without works is dead, so also being a hearer of the Word only is vain without being a doer. So we can see by just a few of many scriptures that a believer is one who will continually live their life in obedience to Christ through the faith they have in Him, by his grace. Eternal life abides in all those who will have such faith as this, but also with the condition that they keep the faith and abide in Christ whom is our salvation. A new Christian may struggle with their faith, but by Gods grace their faith will eventually increase and they will be able to stand strong. But we will only have possession of eternal life as long as we keep hold of it and never let go. If we were to throw it aside, it would still be eternal, but we would not possess it.
If I were to give a gift to someone, just as God gave us the gift of salvation, and they kept it until one day when they decided to give it away, then that gift would no longer be theirs. The gift itself does not change, but the one who once possessed it no longer has it if they give it away or reject it. Satan cannot take anything away from us! But if he can convince us to give it up, God has given us a free will to make that choice. But when someone is awarded a gift, he must reach out and accept it. He must step forward and receive the gift to himself. This does not in any way suggest that he had earned it. But we always give gifts to those whom we love. Likewise, someone that is offered the gift of salvation must step forward and receive it from God, who loves all men. A person does this by repenting of living a life of sin, never to return. So once a person has been saved by grace, obtained eternal life, and believed unto salvation, they have the ability to live unto life eternal in which nothing and nobody can take it away. If I gave someone a gift that had a lifetime guarantee and they gave it away, that gift still has its guarantee, but the person I gave it to doesn’t have it any more. Eternal Life will always be “Eternal” because God made it that way through the blood of Jesus. But what will we do with it? It was eternal before we possessed it, and will remain eternal if we reject it. But the only way we can continue to possess it is through our continued faith in Christ, as we “believe” in Him.
It is very evident through the scriptures and everyday life that Satan is out to cause Christians to fall, by deception if he can, to leave the things of God behind; and then by our own choice to go after sinful things. John 10:10 says, "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy…" Jesus was referring to Christians being attacked spiritually. Satan cannot steal something that you do not possess. He cannot kill somebody who is already spiritually dead. And he cannot destroy somebody who has “eternal” life unconditionally; this is only possible if they can lose or forfeit their salvation. Satan isn't after those who are not Christians. They are already his. He is after those who belong to Christ. Satan also cannot touch a person who is marked by God as one of His own. It is our faith in God that marks us in such a way. Satan would love nothing more than to convince us to lay aside our faith in God, opening a door that would allow him into different areas of our lives. He wants to steal the joy and peace God has given us; kill us spiritually by planting seeds that can infect our faith; and eventually destroy our lives completely by getting our souls into the eternal hell. To destroy refers to the eternal soul of mankind in hell. That is why we must resist the lies and temptations of the Devil and abide in Christ. James 4:7-8 “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you...”
1 Peter 5:8-9 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world". Satan wouldn't have to look very hard to find a sinner to devour. They are already condemned. That is why he is looking for Christians. Looking for those that have their guard down, that he might be able to cause to stumble and take them as far away from faith in God as possible. The warning here is not of Satan taking our salvation away from us. He can't do that! But rather of his deceiving us, through his craftiness, into making the wrong choices on our own. That is why we must be sober and vigilant, which means to be spiritually awake and watchful. The Greek word for resist is “anthistemi” (anth-is'-tay-mee); to stand against, i.e. oppose:
We are instructed to stand up to Satan, as we resist his lies. Not defensively, but offensively stand against him. Otherwise we may be in danger of being deceived into letting him steal, kill and destroy our lives. So we must also do as Paul instructed Timothy in 1 Timothy 6:12, “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life…” If we do not fight for what is ours, and lay hold of it, then we can lose it. For if we are not laying hold of it, then we will be letting go of it. Timothy already had eternal life! But he had to make the decision to keep a hold on it and not let go. If we will build up the faith that is in us, then Satan will not have any advantage on us. Through faith God is with us every moment, in which Satan cannot interfere. It is through this kind of walk, relationship, and “believing” that a Christian cannot be hindered by the enemy. This is the life that God has intended for every Christian in Christ, by the infilling of His Holy Spirit.
As mentioned earlier in Romans 8:35-39, “nothing can separate us from the love of Christ”. The bible says in Romans 5:8 that "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us". God loved us when we were still sinners, and will always love us. Nothing in the world can change that fact, for there is no force in the entire universe more powerful than God’s love. Romans 8:35-39 is talking about that inseparable love, and not about salvation. But even if Paul was talking about salvation, the things mentioned that cannot separate us are demons, angels, man, other creatures, persecutions, or hardships. There is no mention of sinful or lustful things that we may allow to come into our lives, and then by our own free will walk away. Sin is the very thing that separated man from God from the beginning until the present. In defending Eternal Security some would assume that Arminians do not believe in grace, perseverance, or any form of Eternal Security. Such is not true! The scriptures are true, but Calvinists never see the condition placed there. We must not fear that we might fall away, but only that we could if we are not watchful. For God surely will be with us that we may persevere and will not allow us to be separated from His love. But He leaves us the choice with salvation. Most Christians are persuaded that they will not fall because they know what they have in Christ Jesus and they will not let go of it. But yet some have done so for different reasons. So the warning is given in 1 Corinthians 10:12 “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall”. Every Christian should be able to believe that they will not fall; but should be careful not to think that they cannot fall.
The Bible never gives any indication that our salvation is secure without the effort of man to continue in it. Even King David understood this, knowing that His protection was in God, but yet that he must dwell in His presence for such protection. David spoke of this place as a secret place. Psalms 91:1-4 “He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.”
Jesus instructed us to find the secret place as we seek the Father in prayer.
Matthew 6:6 “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”
There is a secret place that each Christian can enter into with God. This secret place is a place of refuge from the enemy of our souls. It is the prayer closet and the relationship we have while in communion with Him. The enemy cannot touch us when we are in the secret place because we gain too much strength from God our savior for him to come near. As our faith is built we gain strength from God that will protect us, as a shepherd protects his sheep. If we will dwell in this secret place then we will dwell in the protection of our God for as long as we do so. In this case Romans 8 is very fitting for the Christian, even concerning salvation. We are not untouchable beings except when we dwell in the secret place. In this secret place the devil cannot find us, cannot touch us, and cannot cause us any harm whatsoever. We have refuge in Christ in whom we trust.
If you live your life believing in the doctrine of Eternal Security and find yourself standing before God only to find out that you were wrong, then you or others who have been taught so could have everything to lose. If you live your life believing that Eternal Security is false, and you do your best to live a holy life and find out in heaven that you were wrong about Eternal Security, you are still safe because you were unconditionally secure and didn’t know it! You may very well be much better off because you made sure you pleased God through as strong of faith and as pure a life you could live, as you were empowered by His grace; thus being rewarded for good works at the judgment seat of Christ. It is the same with cults in the world today. Most religions teach a second chance or that there is not an eternal hell. If they are wrong they have everything to lose, but if Christians are wrong we will still be okay because we will even get a second chance or at least don’t have to go to an eternal hell. We must carefully consider what we choose to believe, whether it is of God, and what the eternal consequences might be. We must carefully consider what the Bible teaches as truth and what is heresy! Is Eternal Security worth the chance of allowing sin in the lives of many, deceiving them into thinking that their sin will not get them to hell, but only a loss of rewards? With holiness you cannot lose. Why take a chance? If you really want to know that you are saved, then do as He has commanded, and be holy, as He is holy!
by Lyndon Conn
Although all Calvinists fall somewhere between the strong and moderate position, many Calvinists believe the same way today as was taught by Calvin, as in this quote by well-known Bible teacher John Mac Arthur.
“Pragmatism's ally is Arminianism, the theology that denies God's sovereign election and affirms that man must decide on his own to trust or reject Christ. That places on the evangelist the burden of using technique that is clever enough, imaginative enough, or convincing enough to sway a person's decision. . . to teach or imply that human technique can bring someone to Christ is contrary to Scripture.”
Arminianism is far from Pragmatism: a practical approach to problems and affairs. Arminianism is a scriptural based theology only, not being based upon such pragmatism, or anything that just makes better sense to us. We will see later under the chapter on “The Misuse of Words and Phrases” that it is quite the opposite that takes place; that Calvinists are actually the ones guilty of what Mac Arthur has accused of Arminians.
The belief that man must decide whether or not he will be saved is not drawn from Pragmatism, but from the Word of God alone, as I will show. Although Mac Arthur says that technique cannot do any good, he himself is a Bible teacher, in which teaching in itself is a technique to persuade men to a particular belief. 1 Corinthians 1:21 says “…it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe”. Teaching is also a form of preaching. Any man who wants to teach must be able to impart into the lives of others something that will convince them of a better way than what they were previously living. Whether that is with their Christian walk, their marriage, child raising, or Bible doctrine. God gave us preachers, teachers, evangelists, and established the Church for this reason. Titus 1:9 “Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers”. Gainsayers are defined as those who dispute or refuse the truth. Even John Mac Arthur gets mail regularly from radio listeners telling how his teaching has touched them and convinced them to change their ways. There is obviously some convincing and persuading for men to receive Jesus and Bible doctrines. He will also spend much time in an effort to convince people of what he believes to be truth. God surely does the work in us, but He also will use men to persuade us as they search the scriptures.
Luke 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
The Greek word for compel is anagkazo (an-ang-kad'-zo); to necessitate:
Jesus instructed us to “compel” people to come in to salvation. This means to convince them of the necessity to be saved. They must make the choice themselves to accept or not. Jesus taught that many who are invited choose not to come. In more than one instance, men made the choice to walk away from salvation. Matthew 19:16, 17, 21, 22 “And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? (Jesus answers)…if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments…Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.” This man made the choice to walk away from the savior and remain in his life of sin and worldly possessions. The word perfect does not mean, “perfect” as we know the word. The Greek word is teleios (tel'-i-os); complete. Jesus was saying that if this man wanted to be complete in salvation, then he must be willing to put God before his possessions. This man could not do this. Nevertheless, the gospel was presented, as we do when we preach, teach, testify, or talk to others about a life in Christ. Each person will then decide whether they will accept of reject the truth. By John Mac Arthur’s own words and teaching he himself is doing what is “contrary to scripture”. While men such as this attempt to discredit the Arminian teachings, they themselves are in error to their own teaching as they are preaching and teaching what they believe to be the gospel.
Paul tells us that men were called to plant spiritual seeds in the lives of people, and to water them, so that God could cause those seeds to grow. 1 Corinthians 3:6-9 “I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.” These scriptures show how we do have a part in bringing men to salvation, through different methods. It may be the testimony of one person, or the sharing of scriptures and inviting them to Church. Then it may be the preacher that waters the seed that had been planted. But we know that it is always God who does the saving of the soul and causes that person to grow and bear fruit. We all work together with God to persuade men. Even Jesus said in John 15:5 “…for without me ye can do nothing.” We do have a part, but it is always God that does the final and lasting work in the life of a person.
Most Calvinists, like John Mac Arthur, believe in a predestination that takes away all human responsibility to make the choice ourselves. But this is not correct doctrine, which I will show by scripture throughout this study. Peter said in 1 Peter 3:15 “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:” If there is nothing at all that we can do to persuade men, then why should we bother being ready to give an answer to them that ask? It is clear that John Mac Arthur and other Calvinists have missed the clear instruction of Gods Word to do our part.
Let’s look at some scriptures that Calvinists use to support their doctrine of Eternal Security.
John 3:15 “That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
These are important and powerful scriptures that are used by all Christians to lead people to salvation through Christ Jesus. The argument would be where the scriptures say that those who believe have “Eternal” or “everlasting” life. The view of the Calvinist is that those who believe have “eternal” life unconditionally, and that a Christian cannot lose their salvation because the life that they have been given is “eternal”. And if it were possible to lose it then Jesus would not have called it “eternal” life. This is why they use the phrase “Once saved, always saved”, because salvation is eternal or everlasting. Once you have something that is eternal, you will always have it no matter what. So therefore they will stand upon scriptures such as Romans 8:35-39, which asks the question, "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Keeping this powerful portion of scripture in mind, let’s come back to it and these words “eternal” and “everlasting” in a few moments. First, let’s look at what a true believer is, as the word is used in these scriptures we just read in John 3.
The Greek word for "believeth" in these two passages of scripture is pisteuo (pistyoo o), which is translated "to have faith", "to place confidence in", or "to trust". There is no argument about the correct definition of this word. One who has faith! It is not a single act of faith or trust as most Calvinists believe, but a continuing operation of such faith and trust, so that one may be called a “believer”. This word is used is a present tense, meaning that a believer is not one who once believed, but rather one who is presently “believing”. Although a single act of faith will result in salvation, it is through continued faith that one will be saved in the end. A believer is one who is “believing” at the present time, and will continue to believe through a life of faith in Christ.
When the Bible says, “he who believes shall be saved” it literally means, “he who is believing shall be saved”. John made this clear when speaking of our abiding in Christ and living apart from sin in 2 John 9 “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” The Greek word for “abideth” is meno (men'-o); which means, “to stay”. Receiving Christ is simply not enough to secure salvation eternally. We must “abide in the doctrine of Christ”, which also means to do as He commanded and keep from sinning. Abide means to stay or continue in Christ, in which a person cannot do if he does not have the doctrine of Christ to begin with, and understand it. John is writing to Christians who already know the full experience of true salvation, explaining that if they return to sin and therefore walk away from the doctrine of Christ, they will then not have God. And without God there can be no salvation. It is only those who “abide” who have both the Father and the Son. Therefore, the believer who will obtain eternal life will be one who will “stay” in a condition of “faith” and “believing” in Christ. Otherwise, he will not have the Father and the Son, or eternal life any longer. The contrast is obvious: those who do not continue in the doctrine of Christ do not have salvation, while those who do continue do have salvation.
To be in Christ is a walk of faith. But this faith must be more than just a one-time confession, while believing that everything is okay, continuing in sin. Any person who believes in Jesus will also believe what he said and live according to His commands. This is a true faith that saves! But a person who becomes unfaithful to God and His commands will only deceive himself if he thinks he will still be saved after becoming unfaithful. If we “believe” in Jesus, then we will do what is required of every Christian, living holy before our God and savior.
A person will work for an employer because they have faith. Faith that after they have done their job they will receive a paycheck and whatever benefits have been offered to them. Most people do not work a few days and expect to get paid for the whole week, when it was expected of them to work the whole week for a whole weeks pay. If that person is not faithful to that employer, is late for work, lies on time cards, or steals merchandise; then that person would most likely be terminated. Such consequences would be because of the employee's own behavior and carelessness and not of the employers: even though the employer may have promised certain benefits with the job. Or if that person for some reason felt that they were not treated good enough, they may quit that job and go look for something else that may be more fulfilling. Either way the responsibility is placed upon the employee, not the employer.
A one-time prayer does not save a person eternally without continuing to walk in that faith any more than an hour of work deserves a weeks pay. No employee would expect such privileges from their employer; but many Christians want to believe that their single prayer of salvation saves them even if they become sinful and unfaithful to God. Jesus told a similar story in Matthew 25:14-30 about a man who while traveling entrusted three of his servants with his money (The servants being the Children of God). Two of them doubled what had been entrusted to them, while the other had taken what he had been entrusted with and buried it. When the master returned and found no profit from that servant, he took away that which he had given him at first, and that servant was to be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. He was already a servant or a child of God, and as a servant of God had the same promise of eternal life as the others, but he became careless. This servant experienced some of the benefits of the master for a season, but did not obtain salvation in the end.
God made a covenant with Abraham that his seed would be blessed and would be God’s own people. But we can read throughout the Old Testament of the many times that God rejected and judged them for their sin. Jesus Himself spoke harsh judgments upon the Pharisee’s and religious people in His days. God did not break His promise to Abraham. The people cut themselves off from God and His blessings for them because of their own sin and idolatry. As soon as they repented God would restore them and keep His covenant. God promised the Israelites the land of their inheritance after exiting from their slavery in Egypt. But because of their own sin, that generation did not receive the promise at all, except for Joshua and Caleb who both kept the faith. But even for the following generations the one time experience of crossing the Red Sea or any other supernatural event the people had experienced, or even the covenant itself made with Abraham was never enough to save them eternally. Although God had made a covenant with Abraham, this covenant was for the whole seed of Abraham. Just being a Jew by flesh made them candidates for salvation; but that was not enough, since they still had to meet the requirements of the law of God. And although our salvation is a far greater of an experience than what they had received, there is still a responsibility to live a life of faith that is pleasing to God. James says in James 2:18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works".
Many people say that they have faith and that they are right with God, while at the same time they have no works or fruits that show it. They may even quote the scripture in Ephesians 2:8,9 that says that it is by grace we are saved and not by works. But they ignore the part that says "through faith". Calvinists have done great damage to the teaching of works in the Bible. It is very important to understand that works alone cannot save us. But if in teaching this fact we ignore or refuse to acknowledge the need of works, then we do the kingdom of God great injustice. Works have their place in the gospel. Although they are without value with the absence of grace and faith, it is an active faith through works that obtains grace. The very thing that makes faith active is good works. It is important to understand the two different types of works that the Bible speaks about: one that has part in salvation, and one that only puffs up a person with pride. The difference should be obvious in scripture.
Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast". These works are negative! But yet good works are also present here with faith. James make this clear in James 2:17-26 where he tells us "faith without works is dead". In verse 24 he says "ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only". The Greek word for justify is dikaioo (dik-ah-yo'-o); "to show to be right or righteous". Calvinists commonly and consistently teach that salvation is given by “grace alone” and obtained by “faith alone”. Although there is a lot of truth in these statements that should not be disregarded, too many times they are taken too far, excluding the need of works completely. But James makes it clear that salvation is not obtained by “faith alone”, as Paul in Ephesians 2:8 made it clear that it is not obtained by “grace alone”; but salvation (grace) is obtained through this active faith. Many people say they have faith, but their faith is dead, not having works. Although God alone does the saving, it is only through works of faith that we may obtain such grace that saves.
Before we got saved we were drowning in the sea of sinfulness without hope. When Jesus threw us His rope to save us from drowning in our sin, we had to make the decision to grab a hold of the rope. Many people think that they have other ways out, or they cannot even comprehend the fact that they are drowning. Jesus throws his rope to every person, but each person must choose to grab a hold of it. Jesus will not lasso anyone! If a Person would be saved, pulled into the boat by Jesus, and then at some point later in their life fall off the ship or jump off because of the drawing of their own lusts; once again back in the sea of sinfulness; then they are again in need of salvation from their sin; drowning as their were previously. This in no way at all indicates that Christ’s blood was not able to save them eternally! Forgiveness of sins is only available under the blood of Jesus, not in the sea of sinfulness. We must continually turn to Him as our only hope for salvation! In this, faith without works is dead! A person who has returned to sin must once again admit their fault in giving in to sin, receive His forgiveness by grabbing the rope, and be pulled back into the boat. Christ made the way of salvation for all men, but we must choose to receive it! If we go overboard it is not the doing of Christ or even the separation of our relationship through any of those things mentioned in Romans 8. It is sin that separates, which is not mentioned in these verses.
It is God’s great love for man that throws us the rope. But it is our faith that believes that this is the way of being saved, and our works that grabs the rope. Faith is joined with works, lest it be dead. A person can have all the faith they think they need in order to be saved, but if they never grab the rope their faith is vain. This same kind of faith must be evident with every Christian in order to “continue” in Christ, and in His great salvation for men.
Anyone can say that they have faith in God and believe that they really do. But according to James, if they have no works, then that faith is dead and is not really faith in God at all. In order to be justified we must have true faith. Romans 5:1 “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:” If we have the true faith that justifies, it will be evident through works.
The Bible tells us that Christians must have good works. But it also tells us about those who profess to be Christians, but their works prove that they are not. Titus 1:16 “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” Good works will follow true faith, just as evil works follow faithlessness.. Faith is the evidence that we are Christians that can be seen by others through works. Hebrews 11:1 “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” Faith has substance and is not empty words of profession. The evidence that a person has faith will be obvious when a person not only believes without seeing, but when they show they truly believe through a holy, faithful life to Christ.
There are three absolutes with the salvation experience. First and foremost is grace, the second would be faith, and both of these together will be linked with works so that we may be justified or rather “declared righteous”. Although works cannot save our souls alone, they are the evidence of a true “believer”. A believer is not one that just says they believe, as in Titus 1:16, but shows they believe by living it. To know Him is to walk with Him, and talk to Him, through a relationship we have with Him.
So to “believe” is not simply a mental acknowledgement of Jesus, the grace of God, and all the things of God. To “believe” is what we call true “saving faith”. It is to be “believing” continually, which also means we will do as He has commanded. Whenever the Bible uses this word in reference to people believing in Christ, it is referring to genuine saving faith and always refers only to those who are presently and continually walking in it, and in obedience to His Word. It is true that many people go to Church and call themselves Christians, when they have never been saved to begin with. Many people are very religious, but not saved. They have never truly had faith in Jesus. Most people would certainly agree that this is true of the person who has not received Jesus as Lord; that they do not truly “believe”. But it is also true of the believer who goes back into a state of not “Believing” unto good works, unto sinfulness. Not that they never believed, but rather that they stopped “believing”. This is evident by the fact that they show through their lifestyles that they do not presently have “faith” in Christ, even though they still claim to believe. They have the head knowledge of Christ, but have lost the heart for the relationship. Jesus spoke of this in His parable of the seeds and the sower in Luke 8:13-14 “They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.” These are those who have had saving faith, but they had fallen away. This is evident by the fact that He said that they did “for a while believe”. If according to Jesus’ words, one must “only believe” to be saved, these certainly did “believe” by the same definition. But because they did not continue to believe they no longer had eternal life abiding in them. Some turned to the pleasures of sin having “no fruit unto perfection”. This perfection is not salvation itself, but refers to holiness, which every Christian must obtain if they want to continue in their salvation. These people in the parable did not apply faith with works so that they might live out a new life in Christ continuously. What works they did have were choked out.
It is after these works die in the life of a Christian that they may choose to return to the old way of life, but still claim to “believe” in Jesus unto salvation. But even the demons believe in Jesus in this way. James 2:19-20 “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?” So if we want to believe unto eternal life then we must continue to show our faith by how we live our lives. And while being led by the Spirit of God bring our bodies under subjection, lest we ourselves become a castaway, as the Apostle Paul mentioned in 1 Corinthians 9:27 "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway". The Greek word for castaway in this scripture is adokimos (ad-ok'-ee-mos); unapproved, i.e. rejected; by implication, worthless (literally or morally):
Paul uses this same word in other scriptures that refer to reprobates who are in no way saved, such as in these scriptures:
Romans 1:28 “And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;”
2 Corinthians 13:5 “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”
2 Timothy 3:8 “Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.”
Titus 1:16 “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”
Keep in mind that every one of these scriptures using the word “reprobate”, referring to those rejected by God because of their sinfulness and refusal to do as God commanded, is the same Greek word just mentioned concerning Paul becoming a “Castaway”, if he were not to discipline his life to be holy before God and men. Paul is saying that it is possible through lack of discipline in his life that Christ could possibly reject him. But we must understand that before God would ever reject a person, it is we who make the choice to do right or wrong; and if we were to fall away, it would be our own doing and not God's. James says in James 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves". It is very possible for a Christian to start off their life of faith with good works following, and then later on find themselves in a place where their faith is dead, because works are no longer present. They then begin to deceive themselves, attempting to justify sin in their lives, while refusing to change their backslidden condition.
Just as faith without works is dead, so also being a hearer of the Word only is vain without being a doer. So we can see by just a few of many scriptures that a believer is one who will continually live their life in obedience to Christ through the faith they have in Him, by his grace. Eternal life abides in all those who will have such faith as this, but also with the condition that they keep the faith and abide in Christ whom is our salvation. A new Christian may struggle with their faith, but by Gods grace their faith will eventually increase and they will be able to stand strong. But we will only have possession of eternal life as long as we keep hold of it and never let go. If we were to throw it aside, it would still be eternal, but we would not possess it.
If I were to give a gift to someone, just as God gave us the gift of salvation, and they kept it until one day when they decided to give it away, then that gift would no longer be theirs. The gift itself does not change, but the one who once possessed it no longer has it if they give it away or reject it. Satan cannot take anything away from us! But if he can convince us to give it up, God has given us a free will to make that choice. But when someone is awarded a gift, he must reach out and accept it. He must step forward and receive the gift to himself. This does not in any way suggest that he had earned it. But we always give gifts to those whom we love. Likewise, someone that is offered the gift of salvation must step forward and receive it from God, who loves all men. A person does this by repenting of living a life of sin, never to return. So once a person has been saved by grace, obtained eternal life, and believed unto salvation, they have the ability to live unto life eternal in which nothing and nobody can take it away. If I gave someone a gift that had a lifetime guarantee and they gave it away, that gift still has its guarantee, but the person I gave it to doesn’t have it any more. Eternal Life will always be “Eternal” because God made it that way through the blood of Jesus. But what will we do with it? It was eternal before we possessed it, and will remain eternal if we reject it. But the only way we can continue to possess it is through our continued faith in Christ, as we “believe” in Him.
It is very evident through the scriptures and everyday life that Satan is out to cause Christians to fall, by deception if he can, to leave the things of God behind; and then by our own choice to go after sinful things. John 10:10 says, "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy…" Jesus was referring to Christians being attacked spiritually. Satan cannot steal something that you do not possess. He cannot kill somebody who is already spiritually dead. And he cannot destroy somebody who has “eternal” life unconditionally; this is only possible if they can lose or forfeit their salvation. Satan isn't after those who are not Christians. They are already his. He is after those who belong to Christ. Satan also cannot touch a person who is marked by God as one of His own. It is our faith in God that marks us in such a way. Satan would love nothing more than to convince us to lay aside our faith in God, opening a door that would allow him into different areas of our lives. He wants to steal the joy and peace God has given us; kill us spiritually by planting seeds that can infect our faith; and eventually destroy our lives completely by getting our souls into the eternal hell. To destroy refers to the eternal soul of mankind in hell. That is why we must resist the lies and temptations of the Devil and abide in Christ. James 4:7-8 “Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you...”
1 Peter 5:8-9 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world". Satan wouldn't have to look very hard to find a sinner to devour. They are already condemned. That is why he is looking for Christians. Looking for those that have their guard down, that he might be able to cause to stumble and take them as far away from faith in God as possible. The warning here is not of Satan taking our salvation away from us. He can't do that! But rather of his deceiving us, through his craftiness, into making the wrong choices on our own. That is why we must be sober and vigilant, which means to be spiritually awake and watchful. The Greek word for resist is “anthistemi” (anth-is'-tay-mee); to stand against, i.e. oppose:
We are instructed to stand up to Satan, as we resist his lies. Not defensively, but offensively stand against him. Otherwise we may be in danger of being deceived into letting him steal, kill and destroy our lives. So we must also do as Paul instructed Timothy in 1 Timothy 6:12, “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life…” If we do not fight for what is ours, and lay hold of it, then we can lose it. For if we are not laying hold of it, then we will be letting go of it. Timothy already had eternal life! But he had to make the decision to keep a hold on it and not let go. If we will build up the faith that is in us, then Satan will not have any advantage on us. Through faith God is with us every moment, in which Satan cannot interfere. It is through this kind of walk, relationship, and “believing” that a Christian cannot be hindered by the enemy. This is the life that God has intended for every Christian in Christ, by the infilling of His Holy Spirit.
As mentioned earlier in Romans 8:35-39, “nothing can separate us from the love of Christ”. The bible says in Romans 5:8 that "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us". God loved us when we were still sinners, and will always love us. Nothing in the world can change that fact, for there is no force in the entire universe more powerful than God’s love. Romans 8:35-39 is talking about that inseparable love, and not about salvation. But even if Paul was talking about salvation, the things mentioned that cannot separate us are demons, angels, man, other creatures, persecutions, or hardships. There is no mention of sinful or lustful things that we may allow to come into our lives, and then by our own free will walk away. Sin is the very thing that separated man from God from the beginning until the present. In defending Eternal Security some would assume that Arminians do not believe in grace, perseverance, or any form of Eternal Security. Such is not true! The scriptures are true, but Calvinists never see the condition placed there. We must not fear that we might fall away, but only that we could if we are not watchful. For God surely will be with us that we may persevere and will not allow us to be separated from His love. But He leaves us the choice with salvation. Most Christians are persuaded that they will not fall because they know what they have in Christ Jesus and they will not let go of it. But yet some have done so for different reasons. So the warning is given in 1 Corinthians 10:12 “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall”. Every Christian should be able to believe that they will not fall; but should be careful not to think that they cannot fall.
The Bible never gives any indication that our salvation is secure without the effort of man to continue in it. Even King David understood this, knowing that His protection was in God, but yet that he must dwell in His presence for such protection. David spoke of this place as a secret place. Psalms 91:1-4 “He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.”
Jesus instructed us to find the secret place as we seek the Father in prayer.
Matthew 6:6 “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”
There is a secret place that each Christian can enter into with God. This secret place is a place of refuge from the enemy of our souls. It is the prayer closet and the relationship we have while in communion with Him. The enemy cannot touch us when we are in the secret place because we gain too much strength from God our savior for him to come near. As our faith is built we gain strength from God that will protect us, as a shepherd protects his sheep. If we will dwell in this secret place then we will dwell in the protection of our God for as long as we do so. In this case Romans 8 is very fitting for the Christian, even concerning salvation. We are not untouchable beings except when we dwell in the secret place. In this secret place the devil cannot find us, cannot touch us, and cannot cause us any harm whatsoever. We have refuge in Christ in whom we trust.
If you live your life believing in the doctrine of Eternal Security and find yourself standing before God only to find out that you were wrong, then you or others who have been taught so could have everything to lose. If you live your life believing that Eternal Security is false, and you do your best to live a holy life and find out in heaven that you were wrong about Eternal Security, you are still safe because you were unconditionally secure and didn’t know it! You may very well be much better off because you made sure you pleased God through as strong of faith and as pure a life you could live, as you were empowered by His grace; thus being rewarded for good works at the judgment seat of Christ. It is the same with cults in the world today. Most religions teach a second chance or that there is not an eternal hell. If they are wrong they have everything to lose, but if Christians are wrong we will still be okay because we will even get a second chance or at least don’t have to go to an eternal hell. We must carefully consider what we choose to believe, whether it is of God, and what the eternal consequences might be. We must carefully consider what the Bible teaches as truth and what is heresy! Is Eternal Security worth the chance of allowing sin in the lives of many, deceiving them into thinking that their sin will not get them to hell, but only a loss of rewards? With holiness you cannot lose. Why take a chance? If you really want to know that you are saved, then do as He has commanded, and be holy, as He is holy!
by Lyndon Conn
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
To whom it may concern:
This forum was begun in order to allow people to ask questions about the Bible and receive answers. It is quite all right for people who disagree with my answers to post their reasons for disagreement, or even to debate my position point-by-point. I enjoy that kind of dialog.
Unfortunately, a number of people have taken to posting long, unweildy articles by dead people, instead of personally interacting on the forum. This is problematic, for several reasons:
First, because I already have enormous volumes of reading material on my desk, requiring my attention;
Second, as my time is limited, and I am a slow reader, I simply cannot devote an hour or so every time someone has read an article they like and would like to get my reaction to it;
Third, while I would enjoy responding to every argument put forward by persons of a contrary opinion to my own, I can not answer all the arguments at one time, unless I wish to write a book. In most cases, haven't the time to do so, nor would my response be other than enormous and overly burdensome to the format of this forum.
I may soon open another category for people to post their "Original position papers, essays, books-in-progress, and plagiarized stuff from other writers," so that the main forum can return to its original purpose of answering people's questions.
Until then, could I request that, instead of huge documents being cut-and-pasted into the forum, those who wish to present a position do so in their own words, and try to limit the contents of each posting to a few arguments at a time, so as to actually permit opportunity for response and dialog on each point?
This would facilitate actual dialog much better, I think.
God bless you.
This forum was begun in order to allow people to ask questions about the Bible and receive answers. It is quite all right for people who disagree with my answers to post their reasons for disagreement, or even to debate my position point-by-point. I enjoy that kind of dialog.
Unfortunately, a number of people have taken to posting long, unweildy articles by dead people, instead of personally interacting on the forum. This is problematic, for several reasons:
First, because I already have enormous volumes of reading material on my desk, requiring my attention;
Second, as my time is limited, and I am a slow reader, I simply cannot devote an hour or so every time someone has read an article they like and would like to get my reaction to it;
Third, while I would enjoy responding to every argument put forward by persons of a contrary opinion to my own, I can not answer all the arguments at one time, unless I wish to write a book. In most cases, haven't the time to do so, nor would my response be other than enormous and overly burdensome to the format of this forum.
I may soon open another category for people to post their "Original position papers, essays, books-in-progress, and plagiarized stuff from other writers," so that the main forum can return to its original purpose of answering people's questions.
Until then, could I request that, instead of huge documents being cut-and-pasted into the forum, those who wish to present a position do so in their own words, and try to limit the contents of each posting to a few arguments at a time, so as to actually permit opportunity for response and dialog on each point?
This would facilitate actual dialog much better, I think.
God bless you.
Last edited by FAST WebCrawler [Crawler] on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
I sure can Bro...
I understand and have no problems adhering to your request. I found this article about a week ago and found it so poigent that I was compelled to share it, even after deliberating briefly on the cut and paste technique. I found this after listening to your debate with that other guy on your website finding myself wishing he had read it. As a Christian I have absolutely no reservation what so ever in following the guidelines established here. I personally never really have thought much about the subject. I dont really consider myself a Calvanist or an Arminean since I think in there extremes they both are wrong, yet I believe in eternal security for the believer.
Thanks Steve
Lord Bless You
Steve
Thanks Steve
Lord Bless You
Steve
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
From what I have read in Steve's posts and know of the Armenian position, he would agree with the previous statement."yet I believe in eternal security for the believer"
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
"How is it that Christians today will pay $20 to hear the latest Christian concert, but Jesus can't draw a crowd?"
- Jim Cymbala (Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire) on prayer meetings
- Jim Cymbala (Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire) on prayer meetings
Hi
Yes but in my way of understanding, I define eternal security as 1) eternal: meaing it never ends nor can it end and 2) secure: meaning it cannot ever be dislodged. I place no requirements on it other than being one of His sheep,that is born again.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
-
_Anonymous
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:03 pm
I hope Steve Gregg doesnt seem personally responsible for everyone's
post. Like myself, I listen to his tapes with great confidence/respect in his
teachings as well as a person. We are all mature enough (I hope) to make wise choices and if not, GOD can take care of that too. I am thankful for each post here and testimony and glad to hear other view points. I may not agree but we are brothers and sisters in CHRIST
and HES big enough to show us truth as we seek HIM.
Read again 1 Corth 13
post. Like myself, I listen to his tapes with great confidence/respect in his
teachings as well as a person. We are all mature enough (I hope) to make wise choices and if not, GOD can take care of that too. I am thankful for each post here and testimony and glad to hear other view points. I may not agree but we are brothers and sisters in CHRIST
and HES big enough to show us truth as we seek HIM.
Read again 1 Corth 13
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Re: Hi
But being one of His sheep means you hear His voice and follow. What happends if you stop following. Then, even by your own definition (which is Biblical) you are not His sheep. Now in this case were you ever His sheep? If you say then you were never His sheep then how could you follow for a period of time? Since it says only His sheep follow.Crusader wrote:Yes but in my way of understanding, I define eternal security as 1) eternal: meaing it never ends nor can it end and 2) secure: meaning it cannot ever be dislodged. I place no requirements on it other than being one of His sheep,that is born again.
I'll use another analogy. If you are saved at 30 (and bear much fruit) and fall away at 40 (deny Christ, etc) then were you never saved, still saved even after falling away or did you loose salvation because you no longer meet the conditions (following Jesus).
The problems:
-If that person was never saved, then they had false assurance of salvation by believing (something only regenerate are said to have the ability to do according to Calvinist, not saying you are one though, just making the point) and bearing fruit. All Biblical signs of salvation. If that person died in their 30's (before falling away) what would have happened to them?
-If that person is still saved after falling away (the common antinomian belief) then those living like this have, at best, no assurance of salvation. And all the warnings about falling away, sowing to please the sinful nature, and being able to tell what kind of person they are by their fruit in the Bible are negated.
So both answers above raise the issue of, how do you know if you are saved? If you lean antinomian then even apostacy is no cause for concern, because you can't loose something you didn't "earn".
If you lean Reformed (Calvinistic) then you say that person was never saved. But then how do you know you are saved? You may love God and bear fruit in love yet you may still, later in life fall away. And since you can't loose your salvation then you must have never been saved! I can't imagine thinking "If I'm elect I'll never fall away, yet if I do fall away, I prove I was never elect." So you can never know, under the Calvinist theology, if you are saved unless you die faithful.
The last possibility is that you loose your salvation. This does not mean you loose salvation whenever you sin, and you become born again and again etc. It means that after being born again, believing, bearing fruit etc. That you are kept by the power of God through faith. If you stop believing then you are not kept by the power of God because unbelievers are not given any assurance of salvation. Hebrews, 1 Tim 1:19, Galations 5-6, John 15 Romans 11 and many other places make it clear that you can be broken off again and burned up. Not as one escaping through the flames (1 Cor 3:15) but one not escaping the flames!
It seems more reasonable to me to view someone who is meeting the Biblical conditions of salvation as saved, and if they later do not meet them because of apostacy, then they have no assurance of salvation, and cannot be said to be saved. Only God knows for sure who his elect are. So we do the best with what we have, the scriptures. We don't want to give someone a false assurance of salvation by telling someone that since they look saved now they are "always saved" unconditionally. The condition is faith. Faith is not a work but a trust that God is fully capable of doing what He has promised. (Romans 4)
It also says in 1 Timothy 3:6 that a "Bishop" should not be someone who is not a new convert "lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil."
Now how could a convert fall into the same condemnation as the devil? Should not Paul have said false convert?
Comments?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:35)
Hi Sean
Well in John chapter 10 vs 24- 30 we have the greatest authority giving us the answer and lets let the Word explain itself as we look.
24Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. 26But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.[b] 27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30I and My Father are one."
The Jews are asking Jesus if He is the Christ and he said He already told them which He did back in John 8:58 and clealry they understood Him and we see this in John 10:33 for they clearly give thier reason for wanting to stone Him in verse 33.
Jesus in verse 26 says to them you do not believe because you are not of my sheep.He doesnt say you dont believe and as a result arent of my sheep. He clealry states" but you do not believe because you are not of my sheep" The order of His words are worth taking note of here.. Jesus goes on to say My sheep ( meaning His sheep ) hear My voice and I know them and they follow me" Here we see Jesus saying that the sheep are His and He knows them and they follow Him. When He says they follow Me notice He doesnt anywhere say they follow me sometimes but that they follow Me.He then goes on to say I give them eternal life and they shall never perish( who shall never perish ? well clearly its His sheep.) I could right a sermon on this one verse and probably many have but for a moment lets just take Jesus at His word and let Him explain Himself when He says NEVER PERISH...never means never and perish means perish.I dont see any wiggle room to get around the clear implication of Jesus own words.Its a very powerful arguement. Further He goes on to say no one can snatch them out of my hand...meaning we are in His hand and no one can snatch them out of His hand. He then says that His Father gave Him the sheep. You cant give something thats not yours. Clearly here we must have belonged to the Father in some sense before He gave us to the Son. And of course we know this to be true for in Ephesians we were chosen before the foundation of the world. Then Jesus in support of the triune Godhead goes on to conclude ' I and the Father are One"
"3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved."
Lord Bless
Steve
24Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."
25Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. 26But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.[b] 27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30I and My Father are one."
The Jews are asking Jesus if He is the Christ and he said He already told them which He did back in John 8:58 and clealry they understood Him and we see this in John 10:33 for they clearly give thier reason for wanting to stone Him in verse 33.
Jesus in verse 26 says to them you do not believe because you are not of my sheep.He doesnt say you dont believe and as a result arent of my sheep. He clealry states" but you do not believe because you are not of my sheep" The order of His words are worth taking note of here.. Jesus goes on to say My sheep ( meaning His sheep ) hear My voice and I know them and they follow me" Here we see Jesus saying that the sheep are His and He knows them and they follow Him. When He says they follow Me notice He doesnt anywhere say they follow me sometimes but that they follow Me.He then goes on to say I give them eternal life and they shall never perish( who shall never perish ? well clearly its His sheep.) I could right a sermon on this one verse and probably many have but for a moment lets just take Jesus at His word and let Him explain Himself when He says NEVER PERISH...never means never and perish means perish.I dont see any wiggle room to get around the clear implication of Jesus own words.Its a very powerful arguement. Further He goes on to say no one can snatch them out of my hand...meaning we are in His hand and no one can snatch them out of His hand. He then says that His Father gave Him the sheep. You cant give something thats not yours. Clearly here we must have belonged to the Father in some sense before He gave us to the Son. And of course we know this to be true for in Ephesians we were chosen before the foundation of the world. Then Jesus in support of the triune Godhead goes on to conclude ' I and the Father are One"
"3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved."
Lord Bless
Steve
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Hi Steve,
Let me clarify how the wording of John 10, which you dealt with above, is understood by people like me. Essentially, Jesus defines "His sheep" as those who are hearing His voice and following Him (John 10:27). This is continuous qualification, but by nature, it can be discontinued.
It is as if I would say, whoever listens to my radio program more than three times a week is, by my definition, a member of "The Narrow Path Fellowship." It becomes easy to define who is and who is not, then, a member of said fellowship.
Suppose that a man listens to the broadcast four or five times a week for three months, and then decides to do something else with his time and only tunes in twice a month. Is he a part of the "fellowship"? Of course not. Was he a part of the "fellowship" when he was listening more that three times a week. Of course, by definition. He was once a part of this defined group, but no longer is a part of it.
Now, suppose I said, if you want to know when I am speaking in your area, listen to my program at least three times a week. I will announce it often enough to assure that everyone who listens that often will never lack for knowledge of my itinerary."
In such a case, that man who listened frequently for three months would find that, indeed, he never lacked for information about my speaking schedule. But suppose, after he no longer listened to the program regularly, he were to meet someone who said, "Steve is speaking in Santa Cruz this week." Could the man say, "No, that is impossible! Because I would have heard of it. Steve said that members of the "fellowship" will never lack for knowledge of his itinerary, and I used to be part of that fellowship, so I would know. Never means never."
Would you see the flaw in this man's thinking? The promise of ongoing information is contingent upon the condition of ongoing participation. Likewise, it is Christ's sheep who will never perish. But being His sheep means you are hearing His words and following Him. When you stop hearing and following, you are no longer in the category that He defined as His sheep. The promise only applies to sheep, not former sheep.
If a man tells his three-year-old son, "This walkway is very slippery, but hold my hand and you will never slip and fall." It is clear that the promise, "You will never slip and fall" is conditioned upon the continuous hand-holding. If the child releases his hold of his father's hand, and then slips and falls, this does not impugn the truthfulness of the promise.
Take another case: Scripture says, "He that does not believe the Son shall not see life" (John 3:36). This statement would gain or lose nothing of its meaning, if it had said "He that does not believe the Son shall never see life," since "shall not perish" (John 3:16) is equivalent to "shall never perish" (John 10:28).
Consider the two statements, side-by-side:
"My sheep [the one hearing and following]...shall never perish"
"[the unbeliever] ......................................shall never see life"
It would be as reasonable to argue, from these statements, that one who is currently an unbeliever could never change his status (i.e., could never belome a believer, and thereby see life), and that he must inevitably never see life, as it would be to argue the contrary case for the one who currently believes and follows Christ (i.e., that that person could never become an unbeliever and thereby perish).
We all know of unbelievers who changed and became believers (we are among them). Thus we know that "He that does not believe the Son shall not see life" is only true so long as that person does not believe. If the conditions change, so do the results. Unbelievers will not see life; former unbelievers will see life. When you apply the same interpretive principle to John 10:28, it is clear that sheep will never perish. Former sheep (something quite different), will perish.
This may not convince you, in itself, that one can lose salvation. However, the other scriptures given by Sean (above), do, I think, make a rather air-tight case.
Let me clarify how the wording of John 10, which you dealt with above, is understood by people like me. Essentially, Jesus defines "His sheep" as those who are hearing His voice and following Him (John 10:27). This is continuous qualification, but by nature, it can be discontinued.
It is as if I would say, whoever listens to my radio program more than three times a week is, by my definition, a member of "The Narrow Path Fellowship." It becomes easy to define who is and who is not, then, a member of said fellowship.
Suppose that a man listens to the broadcast four or five times a week for three months, and then decides to do something else with his time and only tunes in twice a month. Is he a part of the "fellowship"? Of course not. Was he a part of the "fellowship" when he was listening more that three times a week. Of course, by definition. He was once a part of this defined group, but no longer is a part of it.
Now, suppose I said, if you want to know when I am speaking in your area, listen to my program at least three times a week. I will announce it often enough to assure that everyone who listens that often will never lack for knowledge of my itinerary."
In such a case, that man who listened frequently for three months would find that, indeed, he never lacked for information about my speaking schedule. But suppose, after he no longer listened to the program regularly, he were to meet someone who said, "Steve is speaking in Santa Cruz this week." Could the man say, "No, that is impossible! Because I would have heard of it. Steve said that members of the "fellowship" will never lack for knowledge of his itinerary, and I used to be part of that fellowship, so I would know. Never means never."
Would you see the flaw in this man's thinking? The promise of ongoing information is contingent upon the condition of ongoing participation. Likewise, it is Christ's sheep who will never perish. But being His sheep means you are hearing His words and following Him. When you stop hearing and following, you are no longer in the category that He defined as His sheep. The promise only applies to sheep, not former sheep.
If a man tells his three-year-old son, "This walkway is very slippery, but hold my hand and you will never slip and fall." It is clear that the promise, "You will never slip and fall" is conditioned upon the continuous hand-holding. If the child releases his hold of his father's hand, and then slips and falls, this does not impugn the truthfulness of the promise.
Take another case: Scripture says, "He that does not believe the Son shall not see life" (John 3:36). This statement would gain or lose nothing of its meaning, if it had said "He that does not believe the Son shall never see life," since "shall not perish" (John 3:16) is equivalent to "shall never perish" (John 10:28).
Consider the two statements, side-by-side:
"My sheep [the one hearing and following]...shall never perish"
"[the unbeliever] ......................................shall never see life"
It would be as reasonable to argue, from these statements, that one who is currently an unbeliever could never change his status (i.e., could never belome a believer, and thereby see life), and that he must inevitably never see life, as it would be to argue the contrary case for the one who currently believes and follows Christ (i.e., that that person could never become an unbeliever and thereby perish).
We all know of unbelievers who changed and became believers (we are among them). Thus we know that "He that does not believe the Son shall not see life" is only true so long as that person does not believe. If the conditions change, so do the results. Unbelievers will not see life; former unbelievers will see life. When you apply the same interpretive principle to John 10:28, it is clear that sheep will never perish. Former sheep (something quite different), will perish.
This may not convince you, in itself, that one can lose salvation. However, the other scriptures given by Sean (above), do, I think, make a rather air-tight case.
Last edited by FAST WebCrawler [Crawler] on Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve