Mosaic Law and the After Life.

Post by **__id_2533** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:10 pm

sorry, i didn't realize there was a "page two"!

While I'm here:

Paidion, Do you have evidence that the Lake of Fire and "Gehenna" are one and the same?

Thanks, dmatic

Post by **_Paidion** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:51 pm

i guess it's the common factor of fire which makes me think that the Lake of Fire and Gehenna are identical.

In Matthew 18:19 we read of "the Gehenna of fire".

Then we have the following passage which puts "unquenchable fire" in apposition to Gehenna.

Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go to Gehenna, to the unquenchable fire.

Post by **__id_2529** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:18 pm

"Hebrews 11:13

All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance."

"11:39
These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. "

I would be interested to know what the members here consider "the things promised" to be.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:12 pm

I would be interested to know what the members here consider "the things promised" to be.

Immortality and eternal life with God and perhaps to rule and reign with Christ.
"Don't you know saints that you will judge the world."

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:06 pm

The conclusion of the chapter may throw some light on this question:

And all these, though well attested by their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Hebrews 11:39,40

Post by **__id_2529** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:53 pm

thanks for the response!

So what did Abraham "know" concerning the afterlife. How about Moses. Job...??

I don't think that just because the OT doesn't record blatant belief systems concerning the afterlife that all these men didn't have "ideas" that are not recorded in the bible.

but non the less i am desperately curious.

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:19 am

David seemed to have some knowledge of the afterlife and that a Savior would come and deliver him from the grave.

Acts 2:25-28
25 For David says concerning Him: 'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. 26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. 27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. 28 You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.'

Todd

Post by **__id_2529** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:56 pm

King James Bible
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

American Standard Version
Because thou wilt not leave my soul unto Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption.

Bible in Basic English
For you will not let my soul be in hell and you will not give up your Holy One to destruction.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, nor suffer thy Holy One to see corruption.

Darby Bible Translation
for thou wilt not leave my soul in hades, nor wilt thou give thy gracious one to see corruption.

English Revised Version
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, Neither wilt thou give thy Holy One to see corruption.

Tyndale New Testament
because thou shalt not leave my soul in hell, neither shalt suffer thy saint to see corruption.

Weymouth New Testament
For Thou wilt not leave me in the Unseen World forsaken, nor give up Thy holy One to undergo decay.

Webster's Bible Translation
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thy Holy One to see corruption:

World English Bible
because you will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay.

Young's Literal Translation
because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption;

hell or hades.

"leave" well in the orthodox view he shouldn't be there in the first place.

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:24 pm

PhilMan wrote:hell or hades.

"leave" well in the orthodox view he shouldn't be there in the first place.

I think it is talking about the grave. Peter said,

Acts 2:29
"Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

Peter was saying that David was in the grave. David said that his flesh would rest in hope that he would not stay there forever.

Todd

Post by **_Paidion** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:35 pm

By way of word meaning, "hades" and "hell" are the same thing. The English word "hell" primarily means "a hidden place". It used to be said that lovers would seek a hell (to be hidden from the rest of the world). And people would hell potatoes, that is, hide the potatoes themselves from the sun and from animals that would eat them, by using a hoe to bring earth around the plants. Somewhere along the line, the word (with respect to potatoes) got changed to "hill".

One lexicon give the following as meanings of "hades":

1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
3) later use of this word: the grave, death, hell

FOF is correct in stating that "hades" often means "the grave".

Thus:

Acts 2:31 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES , NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.

If Christ's soul (Christ's being) were abandoned to the grave, then His flesh would undergo decay. But because, instead of being abandoned to the grave, the Father raised Him to life, His flesh did not decay.

Consider this passage also:

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of death (or perhaps "the grave" shall not prevail against it.

Right now, the gates of death do prevail. But after Christ's church is raised from the dead at His coming, then His life in the church will prevail. None shall go to the grave thereafter.