Sabbath Observance: 3 Views

Post by **_TK** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:57 pm

dmatic- thanks for your response. you may be right about the prodigal son, but he himself admitted he sinned against his father.

regarding the woman caught in the act of adultery, what do you think Jesus would have done had they brought the man, along with the two witnesses? would he have practiced his fastball off the woman's head?

TK

Post by **__id_2533** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:57 pm

We do not need to speculate about this. Considering that He will have those enemies of His that refused His rule over them brought before Him and slain...why do you question His agreement with his Father's command?

I've tried to answer your questions TK, but you haven't answered mine, yet. Do you agree, or disagree with God's command about the stoning of the rebellious son? Do you think Him unloving, or unjust somehow, by issuing such an one?

Peace, dmatic

Post by **__id_2533** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:19 pm

JC, I'd like to investigate your reaction to my admittedly pointed response to those who expressed shock, disbelief and/or disdain because I believe God's command as truth. My point was made in hope that you would examine your reaction to my profession that God's Word is to be regarded above the opinions of men.

You tried to justify your disdain for me and your opinion that God's Word is repugnant by attempting to lie about my stated belief. You typed that I believe "that people under the New Covenant gain the approval of God by stoing their children."

While it is true that I believe that God is pleased with obedience to His commandments, and that I love Him and desire to see Him pleased, I do encourage people to obey Him, neither He, nor I, delight in the death of the wicked. He and I are well pleased when we see children obeying their parents. Parents should seek to please God by training their children to respect their authority and to obey their commands.

But, what happens when parents are unsuccessful in raising their children to obey and respect their authority? What attitude should they take? Should they simply shrug their shoulders and say "Well, we did the best we could. Oh well, let the world deal with them!"? Sadly, many parents seem to shirk their duty before God to raise their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. They have abandoned the rod of discipline and spoiled the children with their "time-outs". They have refused God's instruction to withhold not the rod of correction, for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die, thou shalt deliver his soul from hell. (Prov. 23:13,14) They have thought within themselves that God's counsel was repugnant! They thought it cruel to beat their own children and they were not cruel they imagined. They also imgained that they were more loving and smarter than God.

Now, were they loving God with all their hearts? were they loving their neighbors as themselves? Were they even loving their own children by refusing God's counsel? No! In fact they were spurning God. They were not loving their neighbors because they were unleashing rebellious children into society and according to scripture they were hating their own children! Prov. 13:24a "He that spareth the rod hateth his own son..."

So, please JC, be done with your false accusations that I believe that God is pleased when parents fail to train their children.

I believe that God's instructions in "both" covenants is to train their children in righteousness. I agree with the Apostle's statement at Col. 3:20 that obedient children are well-pleasing unto the Lord!

Once again, I am pressed for time, and want to also address your other false accusation that I disagree with Jesus and that a number of you have shown me this. Until next time....May god bless you,

dmatic

Post by **_roblaine** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:54 pm

dmatic,
In the story of the woman caught in adultery, Jesus says that "he who is without sin may cast the first stone", and nothing about "where is the man?". You may want to assume that Jesus indicated something along those lines, but that is only an assumption, and you know what happens when you assume

. However, Jesus did give his approval to have the woman stoned (indicating that she was guilty), but only by one who is with out sin. Of course Jesus, being without sin, could have stoned her Himself but chose to show mercy. If you want to go to extreme measures of stoning rebellious children and adulterous women, then perhaps you should look at yourself and see if you, or anyone you know, qualifies to take such an action based on what Jesus said. Are you sinless in these areas? I doubt it.

Robin

Post by **_TK** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:54 am

dmatic wrote:

Do you agree, or disagree with God's command about the stoning of the rebellious son? Do you think Him unloving, or unjust somehow, by issuing such an one?

how can i disagree with God's commandment? I just think it was for a different time, and doubt very strongly that it was ever carried out (was it? i didnt take time to look). of course i am speculating here. i definitely dont think it applies to us today.

why? because i believe Jesus changed things.

TK

Post by **_JC** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:38 am

dmatic, do you think it's possible that you've simply misunderstood the commands of God? In the scriptures, adulterers are to be stoned as well. Have you ever looked at a woman to lust after her? Jesus called that adultery.

But let's take your view of stoning rebelious children for a test drive. Franklin Graham, son of Billy, renounced his faith and rebelled against his father for a decade or so. Instead of stoning his son, Billy and his wife prayed for him and loved him. The result is that Franklin returned to his faith and is now a strong man of God.

So was Billy Graham heeding the "commands of men" instead of the commands of God by not stoning his rebelious son? Or was he obeying Jesus by petitioning God in prayer?

Post by **_Sean** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:04 am

JC wrote:dmatic, do you think it's possible that you've simply misunderstood the commands of God? In the scriptures, adulterers are to be stoned as well. Have you ever looked at a woman to lust after her? Jesus called that adultery.

But let's take your view of stoning rebelious children for a test drive. Franklin Graham, son of Billy, renounced his faith and rebelled against his father for a decade or so. Instead of stoning his son, Billy and his wife prayed for him and loved him. The result is that Franklin returned to his faith and is now a strong man of God.

So was Billy Graham heeding the "commands of men" instead of the commands of God by not stoning his rebelious son? Or was he obeying Jesus by petitioning God in prayer?

And along those lines, what about this response by Jesus:

Luke 9:51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?” 55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:25 pm

why? because i believe Jesus changed things.

Exactly because Jesus did in fact change things, the kingdom of God in the NT is spiritual verses the physical kingdom of God in the OT. Spiritual laws are in fact different than physical laws most of which were rituals.
dmatic my friend , it's like you're on a baseball field trying to play basketball. Wrong sport, wrong field, wrong equipment, wrong time.

Post by **__id_2533** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:05 pm

Thanks for the analogy STEVE!....but I still believe that God doesn't change. And, I can take the commands He gave in the "Old" Testament, such as loving your neighbor as yourself, and apply it to the game, whether it is baseball or basketball or whatever.

Sean wrote:

For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”

True!

He also warned the woman and others to go and sin no more! In fact, that is what the Savior does. He saves us from our sins! Sin is still defined as a breaking, or transgressing of the commandments of God.

We must remember that God sits on the mercy seat, under which are contained the Law....(this is one area where the Pharisees missed it). The purpose of the Law is to mercifully judge...and when judged the people learn righteousness.

You all seem to think God unmerciful to instruct parents of children who refuse to harken to them to bring them to the elders of his city to stone him to death. Obviously, the child may repent before they get to the elders. That is the hope, I believe. God does not want the child to perish, but to repent! To go and sin no more. But, He is very serious about rebellion being as the sin of witchcraft and infecting the rest of the society of which the rebelliious child is a part of. By stoning to death the one, who refuses to repent of his rebellion, He is mercifully saving many children from the judgment of following the ways of this rebellious one.

I'm sorry that I have not seemed to be more attentive to this thread, since last week, but the small library that is 3o miles from my house, is closed now, due to a collapsed ceiling! Now, I must travel 60 miles. Oh well....you're worth it!

Peace, dmatic

Post by **_Sean** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:06 pm

dmatic wrote: You all seem to think God unmerciful to instruct parents of children who refuse to harken to them to bring them to the elders of his city to stone him to death.

I don't recall "us all" saying that.

dmatic wrote: I'm sorry that I have not seemed to be more attentive to this thread, since last week, but the small library that is 3o miles from my house, is closed now, due to a collapsed ceiling! Now, I must travel 60 miles. Oh well....you're worth it!

Peace, dmatic

Sorry to hear about that. If you do happen to get time, I was wondering if you could comment on my earlier post where I quoted what Paul said in Romans 7 about how those who know that law no longer serve in the old way of the written code but in the new way of the Spirit. If you get time, that is.