Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

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morbo3000
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Re: Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

Post by morbo3000 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:29 pm

brody196 wrote:t's sad that instead of preaching repentance, which brings life, many have caved in to a feel good gospel that basically allows anything.
Note that Rob Bell has thrown the repentance card back at conservatives:
“[Y]ou have to come face to face with some of the ways we’ve talked about God, which don’t actually shape people into more loving, compassionate people. And we have supported policies and ways of viewing the world that are actually destructive. And we’ve done it in the name of God and we need to repent.”
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Re: Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

Post by morbo3000 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:16 pm

Christians owe monogamous, loving, homosexual couples a huge apology for not applying the same judgment to divorced Christians. The number of Christians who have been divorced is far greater than the number of Christians who are gay. Jesus was explicit about divorce and remarriage, but did not speak directly of homosexuality. If we require gays to be repentant in order to be accepted as Christians, or in marriage, we need to hold that same standard of repentance to divorced Christians; most divorced Christians I've met are not repentant, but rather justify their decision. If elders took this issue seriously, our churches would clear out in a hurry. If we are going to legislate against gay marriage, then we should spend even more resources on banning no-fault divorce laws because it is more prevalent. If we won't let gay couples be comfortable in our churches, we should not let divorcees (or worse, remarried divorcees) be comfortable in our churches.

By saying this, I am not attempting to allow one sin (if we define it that way) because of sins that are committed by others. "What shall we do then, shall we sin more so that grace may abound? By no means!" That's akin to allowing one of my children to steal a toy because their friend did. What I am drawing out is the hypocrisy of Christians on this issue. If you all are serious about it, then you need to get your own house [church] in order.
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Re: Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

Post by brody196 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:17 pm

morbo3000 wrote:
brody196 wrote:t's sad that instead of preaching repentance, which brings life, many have caved in to a feel good gospel that basically allows anything.
Note that Rob Bell has thrown the repentance card back at conservatives:
“[Y]ou have to come face to face with some of the ways we’ve talked about God, which don’t actually shape people into more loving, compassionate people. And we have supported policies and ways of viewing the world that are actually destructive. And we’ve done it in the name of God and we need to repent.”
Simple question: According to scripture, is homosexual practice a sin? (1 Cor 6: 9-10 Romans 1:27 Lev 18:22)

If you say "yes!", then how can you support a union between two people that God calls an "abomination", "shameful", etc..? If you answer "No!", then please explain how you understand the text' I cited.

Thanks!

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Re: Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

Post by morbo3000 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:28 pm

I'm not enough of a scholar to explain well enough what Walt Wink says about this. And he is one of the primary sources of my stand on this issue. I would enjoy discussing this article.

http://www.religion-online.org/showarti ... title=1265
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Re: Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

Post by brody196 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:36 pm

Christians owe monogamous, loving, homosexual couples a huge apology for not applying the same judgment to divorced Christians.
I don't owe anyone an apology on this matter, as I do not apply different standards of judgment on either of the issues you raise. You also seem to think that there are no instances where a Christian can rightfully divorce, but scripture contradicts such a thought(Matthew 19:9 1 Cor 7:15)

The number of Christians who have been divorced is far greater than the number of Christians who are gay.
You're using the word "Christian" in an unbiblical manner. There aren't any practicing "gay" Christians, any more than there are practicing adulterous Christians. The bible uses the word "Christian" to speak of disciples(Acts 11:26). A "Christian" disciple follows the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, who taught that homosexuality is a sin that needs to be repented of.
Jesus was explicit about divorce and remarriage, but did not speak directly of homosexuality.
He also didn't directly address bestiality, so whats your point? He did however speak of "the law and the prophets", which teach that homosexual practice is sinful. (Lev 18:22)
If we require gays to be repentant in order to be accepted as Christians, or in marriage, we need to hold that same standard of repentance to divorced Christians; most divorced Christians I've met are not repentant, but rather justify their decision. If elders took this issue seriously, our churches would clear out in a hurry. If we are going to legislate against gay marriage, then we should spend even more resources on banning no-fault divorce laws because it is more prevalent. If we won't let gay couples be comfortable in our churches, we should not let divorcees (or worse, remarried divorcees) be comfortable in our churches.
Where do you draw the line? Let's say that a man wanted to have several wives and be accepted in the Christian church, is that ok?

By saying this, I am not attempting to allow one sin (if we define it that way) because of sins that are committed by others. "What shall we do then, shall we sin more so that grace may abound? By no means!" That's akin to allowing one of my children to steal a toy because their friend did. What I am drawing out is the hypocrisy of Christians on this issue. If you all are serious about it, then you need to get your own house [church] in order.[/quote]

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Re: Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

Post by brody196 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:48 pm

morbo3000 wrote:I'm not enough of a scholar to explain well enough what Walt Wink says about this. And he is one of the primary sources of my stand on this issue. I would enjoy discussing this article.

http://www.religion-online.org/showarti ... title=1265
With all due respect, Mr. Wink goofed big time on this issue. I don't mean to judge or belittle the man, but his work on homosexuality would be laughable, if it wasn't such a serious issue... Nevertheless, here is a thorough refutation of Wink's mishandling of scripture..

http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Ho ... _Wink.html

Also, Dr. Michael Brown has written on the subject.. http://www.amazon.com/Queer-Thing-Hap ... hael+brown

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Re: Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

Post by morbo3000 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:55 pm

Excellent. We have no need to discuss it then. We can set the books together in a room and let them debate each other. ;)
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Re: Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

Post by morbo3000 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:58 pm

... Though if we do, I'll be sure to not dismiss your views as "laughable."
When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.
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Re: Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

Post by Singalphile » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:04 pm

It doesn't sound good. I don't know much about him, but I'm again reminded of why I like my pastors/elders to be in their 60's, at least! Not that old men are immune from this kind of thing or worse (adultery, apostasy, etc.), but it's less likely I suppose. Some relatively young 43 year old guy, you just never know.
... that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. John 5:23

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Re: Rob Bell comes out in support of gay marriage.

Post by brody196 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:28 am

morbo3000 wrote:... Though if we do, I'll be sure to not dismiss your views as "laughable."
Care to address the scriptures and questions that I asked "you"?

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