Has Every Jot and Tittle of the Law Passed?

[steve7150]

Mel, there is another way of understanding Mat 5:17-18 that you might ponder, and that is that Jesus did fulfill the law and the prophets (as I assume we both agree) at Calvary with His death and resurrection and that we keep the law by being IN Christ. So in essence the law has not passed away per say, but is still required, but is fulfilled by Christ, and subsequently by us by faith in Christ. And therefore the law has not yet passed away until the physical heaven and earth pass away. But since Calvary, how a person keeps the law has changed, and that is by having faith in Jesus Christ.





Doug,

Good thought, i never considered this but it's a very Jesusesque train of thought and a real possibility which would require a second coming to create a new heavens and earth.

[Mellontes]

Mel, there is another way of understanding Mat 5:17-18 that you might ponder, and that is that Jesus did fulfill the law and the prophets (as I assume we both agree) at Calvary with His death and resurrection and that we keep the law by being IN Christ. So in essence the law has not passed away per say, but is still required, but is fulfilled by Christ, and subsequently by us by faith in Christ. And therefore the law has not yet passed away until the physical heaven and earth pass away. But since Calvary, how a person keeps the law has changed, and that is by having faith in Jesus Christ.

Jots and tittles apply to the OT economy. I think it is a big stretch to believe what you said, especially in light of the fact that the church has no end (Eph 3:21 - please don't say that world means planet or I will get sick - you might want to check out the Greek)...and if you accept Paul's definition for elements in 2 Peter 3 it all glides like smooth silk. In my post to Homer (if on this thread, I can't see it while in this mode) it is clear that Hebrews mentions the soon coming passing of the OT economy. It is plain to me, although it wasn't always that way...

And I don't think "pass" means to be replaced in another form...

Matthew 5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mellontes version: For I say to you, until the OT economy (and people) perish, not one jot or tittle of the whole law will perish, until all is fulfilled.

Does law mean only the books of Moses? It might. What about Deut 18:15??? Would all that be fulfilled at the cross? And if it includes the prophets, then it could not all be fulfilled for sure because of the many references to the second coming, that is if you believe it to be a future coming...

[Douglas]

Homer, your question made me think and research. Here is maybe a little better explanation hopefully, as Matt 5:17-18 are a bit more difficult to decide how one should understand it. Mel does provide a very good argument that might be correct, and is one of several possibilities that I would consider even still. Here is another that we might consider.

Matt 5:17-18 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

I could see the "law" portion of the above verses to fall into two different categories.
1. Moral law = un-changable
2. Ritual laws = symbolic, pointing to Christ.

Consider the following verses.

Matt 7:12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Rom 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

When Jesus came, he fulfilled the law (both moral and ritual). He fulfilled the ritual laws by being the very thing that they anticipated, or looked forward to. So one might say in essence that the ritual laws did not pass away, but changed modes in how followers of God are to observe them. The old covenant followers believed in God by following the ritual laws that were instructed by Moses which pointed to Jesus. When Jesus came and fulfilled those things that pointed to Him, he did not destroy them, he fulfilled them. Now in the new covenant, we keep the "law" by believing in Jesus who the ritual laws looked forward to. In essence we keep the ritual laws (which have changed modes) by believing in Jesus Christ who fulfilled them. The ritual laws changed modes in observation from what the Jews did physically to how we do it now in the new covenant spiritually. In the sense of a spiritual reality, the ceremonial and ritual laws are still valid and are continued today. Changed? yes! Passed away? no.

Obviously Jesus fulfilled the moral laws, and I don't think we would say that it has passed away either. When we love one another, we fulfill the law according to Rom 13:8 and Matt 7:12. I wouldn't think anyone would say that the moral law has passed or that we do not need to keep it anymore.

What do you think?
Doug

[Mellontes]

Homer, your question made me think and research. Here is maybe a little better explanation hopefully, as Matt 5:17-18 are a bit more difficult to decide how one should understand it. Mel does provide a very good argument that might be correct, and is one of several possibilities that I would consider even still. Here is another that we might consider.

Matt 5:17-18 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

I could see the "law" portion of the above verses to fall into two different categories.
1. Moral law = un-changable
2. Ritual laws = symbolic, pointing to Christ.

Consider the following verses.

Matt 7:12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Rom 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Rom 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

When Jesus came, he fulfilled the law (both moral and ritual). He fulfilled the ritual laws by being the very thing that they anticipated, or looked forward to. So one might say in essence that the ritual laws did not pass away, but changed modes in how followers of God are to observe them. The old covenant followers believed in God by following the ritual laws that were instructed by Moses which pointed to Jesus. When Jesus came and fulfilled those things that pointed to Him, he did not destroy them, he fulfilled them. Now in the new covenant, we keep the "law" by believing in Jesus who the ritual laws looked forward to. In essence we keep the ritual laws (which have changed modes) by believing in Jesus Christ who fulfilled them. The ritual laws changed modes in observation from what the Jews did physically to how we do it now in the new covenant spiritually. In the sense of a spiritual reality, the ceremonial and ritual laws are still valid and are continued today. Changed? yes! Passed away? no.

Obviously Jesus fulfilled the moral laws, and I don't think we would say that it has passed away either. When we love one another, we fulfill the law according to Rom 13:8 and Matt 7:12. I wouldn't think anyone would say that the moral law has passed or that we do not need to keep it anymore.

What do you think?
Doug

Hi Doug. I know your question was to Homer, so I'll try to be quick. What do you do with the "prophets" portion of Matthew 5:18? Did Jesus fulfill all that the prophets had said, and about Him too? I don't think we have cause to limit Jesus' words to certain portions of the law just as we can't limit certain portions of the prophets - especially those dealing with the time of the end - the 2nd advent... Okay, I'll go away now. You may freely reprimand me for interrupting...

[Douglas]

Luke 18:31
Then Jesus took the 12 aside and said to them "Look, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the son of man by the prophets will be accomplished."

Doug

edit: also Luke 24:44 "Then He said to them, "these are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled"

[Mellontes]

Luke 18:31
Then Jesus took the 12 aside and said to them "Look, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the son of man by the prophets will be accomplished."

Doug

edit: also Luke 24:44 "Then He said to them, "these are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled"

I am not trying to be difficult here, but wouldn't the next two verses qualify the everything as pertaining to the cross? Here the context is Calvary. In Matthew 5:18 it is talking about heaven and earth in relation to the law and the prophets.

Luk 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
Luk 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

As for Luke 24:44, it is clear that Jesus is referencing Luke 18 ("that I spoke to you while I was still with you"). Back in Luke 18 the disciples did not understand what Jesus meant:

Luke 18:3434 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

But in Luke 24, Jesus opens their understanding:

Luke 24:45-4745 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The Scriptures referred to nothing less than the OT - something I need to be reminded of a lot...

[Homer]

Hi Douglas,

I plan to get back to you after a bit of study and thought.

Blessings, Homer

[Homer]

Hi Douglas,

You wrote:

When Jesus came, he fulfilled the law (both moral and ritual). He fulfilled the ritual laws by being the very thing that they anticipated, or looked forward to. So one might say in essence that the ritual laws did not pass away, but changed modes in how followers of God are to observe them. The old covenant followers believed in God by following the ritual laws that were instructed by Moses which pointed to Jesus. When Jesus came and fulfilled those things that pointed to Him, he did not destroy them, he fulfilled them. Now in the new covenant, we keep the "law" by believing in Jesus who the ritual laws looked forward to. In essence we keep the ritual laws (which have changed modes) by believing in Jesus Christ who fulfilled them. The ritual laws changed modes in observation from what the Jews did physically to how we do it now in the new covenant spiritually. In the sense of a spiritual reality, the ceremonial and ritual laws are still valid and are continued today. Changed? yes! Passed away? no.

Obviously Jesus fulfilled the moral laws, and I don't think we would say that it has passed away either. When we love one another, we fulfill the law according to Rom 13:8 and Matt 7:12. I wouldn't think anyone would say that the moral law has passed or that we do not need to keep it anymore.

Regarding the moral laws, they are a reflection of the character of God and are thus unchangeable. They existed as natural law (i. e. known naturally) prior to the Law of Moses and were more or less clearly understood by all mankind, Romans 2:14.

As to the Law of Moses, it was a shadow of that which was to come, and not the reality. The word skia (shadow) plays an important part in the distinction between real and unreal existance. Shadows show only an outline of the real thing. Note what is said in Colossians and Hebrews:

Colossians 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14. having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. 16. So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17. which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

It is my opinion that the "handwriting of requirments that was against us" was the old covenant God made with Israel (and only Israel). Moses had made a written copy of the law:

Exodus 34:27-28: "Then the Lord said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments."

Hebrews 10:1 (NKJV)
1. For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.

In the sense of a spiritual reality, the ceremonial and ritual laws are still valid and are continued today. Changed? yes! Passed away? no.

In my view, the ceremonial and ritual laws, indeed the whole of the Law of Moses are inapplicable to the Christians as a rule of life. We have the reality, the Law of Christ, the shadow has been fulfilled, done away.

God bless, Homer

[Douglas]

Homer,

I agree. Everything you said agrees with what I was trying to say.

Doug