Paul Washer

Post by **_Michelle** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:39 am

I listened to it too. I liked the message and I hope some, or many, of the young people in the audience took it to heart. I especially liked it when the crowd cheered and he snapped back, "Why do you applaud that? I'm talking about you!"

I agree with DJ that it's a curious thing that this sermon is touted as "the one that was so controversial that they've never asked him back." It was given only a little over a year ago at the kind of event that seems to happen yearly, so there hasn't been much chance to ask him back. Also, he was the one who said (twice) that he would never be asked back. Maybe it's a little bit of hype? It did make me want to listen to see what was so dangerous.

I looked up some responses to his sermon. Several of them that were critical mentioned that his theology jumped back and forth. I think that sermon was a little too Arminian for his Calvinist listeners.

Post by **_djeaton** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:58 am

MichelleM wrote:I especially liked it when the crowd cheered and he snapped back, "Why do you applaud that? I'm talking about you!"

That was classic. I backed it up and listened to that part again. I've heard of stepping on toes before, but that was a slap in the face that was not only well delivered, but well needed.
D.

Post by **_roblaine** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:20 am

What a great sermon! I heard some small clips of this sermon on the radio (Way of the Master). But listening to it in it's entirety was very edifying. Thanks for posting the link.

Robin

Post by **_Perry** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:25 am

I listened to this message a while back. I remember wondering what he said that was so contraversial. I've since listened to several other of his sermons and I like them overall. He leans a little heavily on the "I get persecuted for delivering the truth" schtick it seems to me. Still I find his messages worthwhile.

Perry

Post by **_djeaton** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:44 am

Perry wrote:He leans a little heavily on the "I get persecuted for delivering the truth" schtick it seems to me. Still I find his messages worthwhile.

I thought so as well. He mentioned not getting invited back so many times in this one piece that he was pretty much asking to not get invited back. If they actually canceled future appearances, that would be one thing. But to only speak once and then hold it up as something significant because it was only once sounded a bit like a marketing ploy of "so powerful that it has been banned in seven states" or something.

The only other thing that I disagreed with is some of the things that he said about the American culture when it came to clothes and such. I've been in countries where they wore (or didn't wear) clothes that would get you arrested here. I don't think that you can judge one culture's version of modesty based upon another's. I believe that you should dress modestly and conservatively based on what that is in your culture. What is provocative in one culture isn't necessarily so in another. I believe he tried to place some absolutes in that area that were very culturally relative.
D.

Post by **_TK** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:07 pm

i got a kick out of it when he told the kids that they would be excommunicated from some of the churches in SA where he does missions work. slam!

i think EVERYbody needs to hear this message. as I have learned from Steve G over and over, there is more to being a christian than simply saying a prayer and moving on. the truth is that:

christian = disciple

but mainstream christianity says:

disciple= overly serious christian

thus, they excuse themselves from being a disciple. bad news.

TK

Post by **_TK** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:09 pm

also-

he may be a calvinist, but the 2nd link i posted: "a sermon that has angered many" seems very anti -eternal security. now, he may state that if you fail the "test" outlined in 1 John that you were never saved, but listening to the message it sure seems that he suggests you can lose your salvation.

TK

Post by **_Steve** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:18 pm

Y'know, I have always thought of holiness teaching as being very consistent with true Calvinism, since the doctrine of perseverance (at least among the Calvinistic Puritans) seemed to imply perseverance in holy living. Some modern Calvinists may downplay or neglect this emphasis, but my favorite Calvinists have always been the Puritans. There was no greasy-grace in their theology. Easy-believism is something I have always associated with Baptists, and their like, rather than with Calvinists.

Post by **_JC** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:19 am

I have mixed feelings about this sermon. While I don't disagree with anything he said, we are told to teach and correct others with a spirit of meekness. He was very in-your-face and while the content was good, he sounded a bit too confrontational... bording on arrogance. Perhaps I'm just a weak man but this style of preaching has always turned me off. It's hellfire and brimstone, rather than faith, love and obedience. I prefer to encourage, rather than scare.

Post by **_Perry** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:20 am

JC,

I tend to agree.

Who was it that said, "I don't mind you telling me I'm going to go to hell if I don't change my ways, as long as you're doing it with tears in your eyes."?

Perry