"Satan's binding" - a grammatical thought

Post by **_Allyn** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:27 pm

Ely wrote:Thanks for your thoughts Steve.

Steve wrote:In my opinion, the binding of Satan "so that he should not deceive the nations" is a dramatic portrayal of a concept. The concept is not that Satan is actually in chains, in prison, is less-busy, sick or even necessarily weakened. It is making a statement about the net impact of Satan's influence upon the nations (that is, the Gentile World).
This is consistent with your general approach to the book of Revelation and other so-called (I don't mean that negatively) "apocalyptic" portions of the Scriptures, an approach which I as a premillenialist of course do not take.

But, it's all good food for thought nonetheless - has Satan's "little season" started? Hmmmmmmmmm...............

Ely

I think it has, Ely. But I am not ready to support that notion yet.

Post by **_Ely** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:19 pm

Question: In you guys' opinion, would the "little season" see the world return to "the 100% darkness of the nations prior to the spread of the Christian message"?

Post by **_Steve** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:18 pm

Not necessarily, but it may involve the extinguishing of all public Christian witness—i.e., we may end up a relatively small remnant, meeting "underground" as in China and other oppressed countries. Others, who are more of a postmillennial bent, would see the "little season" as exceedingly short (i.e., a moment only—the mere thought of rebellion quashed instantly by Christ) so that there would be no noticable or significant reduction of Christian influence in the end.

Post by **_Sean** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:02 am

Ely wrote: This is consistent with your general approach to the book of Revelation and other so-called (I don't mean that negatively) "apocalyptic" portions of the Scriptures, an approach which I as a premillenialist of course do not take.

But, it's all good food for thought nonetheless -

Ely

One way to look at it is to see what Jesus literally said. Like (Joh 12:31) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
What does that mean? The cross? That's what I take it as. Not "now" as in a "later" millenium.

Ask yourself this question:

-What did Jesus accomplish? In the natural, not much at all. He performed some miracles and told some stories, made the Jews mad and got killed for it. In the natural it doesn't look like He did the world any good. Sure, He rose from the dead, but what good did that do us? The world still sucks and we're getting pummeled down here! I Know you're not saying that, but that is exactly what I was thinking when I read your post. Either Jesus came and did little if anything but get killed, or He accomplished something astonishing, something that has a real implact on the world (Nations, Gentiles as well as the Jews) through real Christians who really get delivered from their sin and live an new life for God. I don't read of a time where Jesus will conform the "world" into an idealic picture. I do read though of a kingdom full of wheat and tares, where eventually the tares ("world" as you refer to it, the one that satan controls) will be removed and the righteous will inherit the earth.

Post by **_Ely** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:02 am

Sean wrote:One way to look at it is to see what Jesus literally said. Like (Joh 12:31) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
What does that mean? The cross? That's what I take it as. Not "now" as in a "later" millenium.

He literally said it, of course, but what did He mean? Where was Satan "cast out" of?

Sean wrote:Ask yourself this question:

-What did Jesus accomplish? Either Jesus came and did little if anything but get killed, or He accomplished something astonishing, something that has a real implact on the world (Nations, Gentiles as well as the Jews) through real Christians who really get delivered from their sin and live an new life for God.

I'm with you there. But none of this demands that we consider Revelation 20:1-3 to have been (being) fulfilled.

Sean wrote:I don't read of a time where Jesus will conform the "world" into an idealic picture. I do read though of a kingdom full of wheat and tares, were eventually the tares ("world" as you refer to it, the one that satan controls) will be removed and the righteous will inherit the earth.

Again, this does not require Revelation 20:1-3 has been fulfilled. If anything, the fact that Satan is the one who is sowing the tares seems to provide further weight against the idea that he has been bound.

Post by **_Sean** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:49 pm

Ely, It would seem that Revelation 20 could be symbolic (fancy me thinking that

) of satan being cast out as prince of this world. Just as the kingdom of God growing as a mustard seed to fill the whole earth takes time, the advancement of the kingdom happens as people are translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of Christ. This is only possible if satans power has been overcome by something greater than himself. This could simply be spoken of as "binding" satan, one person at a time.

Your right about this explanation not demanding this view of Revelation 20. I mean, Jesus being the stone that grinds men into powder might be literal too. He might come back looking like that stone guy from "X-Men" and lay on his side, yell "steamroller" and literally smash people into tiny pieces to literally fulfill those passages, but for some reason I doubt that will happen.

Post by **_Ely** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:37 pm

Sean wrote:Your right about this explanation not demanding this view of Revelation 20. I mean, Jesus being the stone that grinds men into powder might be literal too. He might come back looking like that stone guy from "X-Men" and lay on his side, yell "steamroller" and literally smash people into tiny pieces to literally fulfill those passages, but for some reason I doubt that will happen.

Well, as a literalist, I am actually expecting exactly that.

joking

honestly

Post by **_Paidion** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:10 am

Well, my method is to take the Scriptures literally, unless it is obvious from the context that they are meant to be a parabolic or figurative.

But please don't prove my method to be incorrect, or I may have to reach for the axe and have a go at my right hand.

Post by **_Sean** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:35 am

Paidion wrote: But please don't prove my method to be incorrect, or I may have to reach for the axe and have a go at my right hand.

But think about it this way, you only have to do it once.

Then, if it tempts you after that, you don't have to do anything about it.

Post by **_MoGrace2u** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:36 pm

Ely wrote:
STEVE7150 wrote:Jesus said to make disciples of all the nations. In order to accomplish that Satan must be spiritually retrained from deceiving the nations. His power must have been limited by God until there are disciples in all the nations and then he will be released for a little season before Christ's return IMO.
But why in the first century, just decades after Jesus' ascension, do the apostles say so much about the activities of Satan both within and without the church? In the first century, Satan:

- was able to 'fill the hearts' of believers to lie against God (Acts 5:3)
- was able to 'tempt' believers and manipulate their lack of self-control (1 Corinthians 7:5),
- was able to 'take advantage' of believers with his 'wiles' (2 Cor. 2:10-11)
- was the god of this age who is blinding the minds of some unbelievers (2 Cor. 4:4)
- was 'transforming himself in to an angel of light' (2 Cor. 11:14-15)
- was 'the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who is now working in the sons of disobedience' (Ephesians 2:2)
- was 'warring' against saints with 'fiery darts' (Ephesians 6:10-12,16)
- was able to hinder the movements of evangelists (1 Thessalonians 2:18)
- was 'walking around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour' (1 Peter 5:8)

Post-apostolic church history is similarly grim. The gospel has always been greatly opposed throughout the nations it has been preached in. God's New Covenant people have been slaughtered throughout history. In the 4th century, Satan unleashed one of his greatest ever assaults by actually taking over the "church"! Then there was the rise of Islam which swept across so many formerly Christian communities and has hardened a great many people to the gospel. And so on, and so on.

It almost appears that Satan's activities have been fiercer than ever after the cross!

Hey Ely,
Long time no see.

Aren't you forgetting the power to overcome that is available to the believer in those same passages? The gospel does go forth and the gates of hell cannot prevail against it.

ex-pfrs member,