Jesus is God

[dwight92070]

Notice here in Romans 8 how Paul, once again, uses "God" and "Christ" interchangeably:

Romans 8:9 - "However you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the SPIRIT OF GOD dwells in you. BUT (the "but" here continues the previous thought, but now presents the opposite point) IF ANYONE DOES NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he does not belong to Him."

If the Spirit of God IS the Spirit of Christ, is it too much to see here that also God IS Christ? ONLY if you close your eyes to the plain meaning.

[dwight92070]

Hebrews 2:14 - "Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same ..."
Notice Jesus chose to become flesh and blood, even before He was conceived. Humans don't pre-exist, so we don't get that choice. Only God could make such a choice.

[dwight92070]

Romans 16:20 "The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet."

But we know from Genesis 3:15, who God told the serpent, would crush his head - the seed of the woman - Jesus!

So we know that Jesus IS the God of peace.

[darinhouston]

Hebrews 2:14 - "Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same ..."
Notice Jesus chose to become flesh and blood, even before He was conceived. Humans don't pre-exist, so we don't get that choice. Only God could make such a choice.

You're assuming an awful lot not stated in that passage - the fact that God chose to use a man who shared the same humanity as the rest of us instead of coming himself as God or sending some angelic being or creating a god-like entity to come and rescue mankind is what is in view here. He was like us and shared in our experience. It doesn't say anything at all about his "choice" to do so or imply any pre-existence here in any manner.

[darinhouston]

Romans 16:20 "The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet."

But we know from Genesis 3:15, who God told the serpent, would crush his head - the seed of the woman - Jesus!

So we know that Jesus IS the God of peace.

You're again conflating two things (one quite metaphorical) - God Himself will crush satan but it doesn't equate God with Jesus - and in fact, it says here that God will crush Satan under YOUR feet - not his own feet. This is, in fact, consistent with God crushing Satan by the means of Jesus.

Points for creativity, though.

[dwight92070]

"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me."

Can you imagine if Paul, or Peter, or John, said this? Or how about Billy Graham, or James Dobson, or David Jeremiah? Or how about if your pastor said it? Or your Bible teacher? If they said that, we would rightfully ask, "Who do you think you are? You want us to trust you in the same way that we trust God? We can't. You are a flawed man of sin."

Another way of saying it could be: Calm down, put your faith in God, put your faith in Me.
Jesus could say this because He was not only without sin, but has the same power and authority as God, being equal with God.

[darinhouston]

"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me."

Can you imagine if Paul, or Peter, or John, said this? Or how about Billy Graham, or James Dobson, or David Jeremiah? Or how about if your pastor said it? Or your Bible teacher? If they said that, we would rightfully ask, "Who do you think you are? You want us to trust you in the same way that we trust God? We can't. You are a flawed man of sin."

Another way of saying it could be: Calm down, put your faith in God, put your faith in Me.
Jesus could say this because He was not only without sin, but has the same power and authority as God, being equal with God.

Well, he was the Son of God - the Messiah - something they were to believe in - there's nothing to "believe in" or "put faith in" with these other people - but, do you completely ignore the "also" which implies strongly (or clearly states) that God is something other than Jesus? There are two objects of belief - God (one) and Jesus (the other).

[dwight92070]

"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me."

Can you imagine if Paul, or Peter, or John, said this? Or how about Billy Graham, or James Dobson, or David Jeremiah? Or how about if your pastor said it? Or your Bible teacher? If they said that, we would rightfully ask, "Who do you think you are? You want us to trust you in the same way that we trust God? We can't. You are a flawed man of sin."

Another way of saying it could be: Calm down, put your faith in God, put your faith in Me.
Jesus could say this because He was not only without sin, but has the same power and authority as God, being equal with God.

Well, he was the Son of God - the Messiah - something they were to believe in - there's nothing to "believe in" or "put faith in" with these other people - but, do you completely ignore the "also" which implies strongly (or clearly states) that God is something other than Jesus? There are two objects of belief - God (one) and Jesus (the other).

Good point. However the "also" does not necessarily mean that He is someone other than God. Remember, Jesus was "the new kid on the block", so to speak. They had known about God since Adam and Eve. Jesus, on the other hand, was pretty much unknown in Israel until He began His ministry at the age of 30 or so. So they had only known Jesus for 3 or 3 1/2 years at most. The disciples learned that He was "a integral part of God"- something they never knew before, SOMEONE they never knew before. So now He was teaching them: Yes, you know God and believe in Him, now I want you to know Me,that I am an integral part of God, and believe in ME also, just like you believe in God, because I am God.
It is easy to see that they had doubts at times, knowing that they had never known this about God before.

So the verse could have been written (or at least that's how I understand it): Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me, because I am God.

[darinhouston]

"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me."

Can you imagine if Paul, or Peter, or John, said this? Or how about Billy Graham, or James Dobson, or David Jeremiah? Or how about if your pastor said it? Or your Bible teacher? If they said that, we would rightfully ask, "Who do you think you are? You want us to trust you in the same way that we trust God? We can't. You are a flawed man of sin."

Another way of saying it could be: Calm down, put your faith in God, put your faith in Me.
Jesus could say this because He was not only without sin, but has the same power and authority as God, being equal with God.

Well, he was the Son of God - the Messiah - something they were to believe in - there's nothing to "believe in" or "put faith in" with these other people - but, do you completely ignore the "also" which implies strongly (or clearly states) that God is something other than Jesus? There are two objects of belief - God (one) and Jesus (the other).

Good point. However the "also" does not necessarily mean that He is someone other than God. Remember, Jesus was "the new kid on the block", so to speak. They had known about God since Adam and Eve. Jesus, on the other hand, was pretty much unknown in Israel until He began His ministry at the age of 30 or so. So they had only known Jesus for 3 or 3 1/2 years at most. The disciples learned that He was "a integral part of God"- something they never knew before, SOMEONE they never knew before. So now He was teaching them: Yes, you know God and believe in Him, now I want you to know Me,that I am an integral part of God, and believe in ME also, just like you believe in God, because I am God.
It is easy to see that they had doubts at times, knowing that they had never known this about God before.

So the verse could have been written (or at least that's how I understand it): Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me, because I am God.

All I can say is that you've completely re-written the verse and re-created the narrative to introduce something not in any way in the context or demonstrably in their understanding.

[dwight92070]

Well, he was the Son of God - the Messiah - something they were to believe in - there's nothing to "believe in" or "put faith in" with these other people - but, do you completely ignore the "also" which implies strongly (or clearly states) that God is something other than Jesus? There are two objects of belief - God (one) and Jesus (the other).

Good point. However the "also" does not necessarily mean that He is someone other than God. Remember, Jesus was "the new kid on the block", so to speak. They had known about God since Adam and Eve. Jesus, on the other hand, was pretty much unknown in Israel until He began His ministry at the age of 30 or so. So they had only known Jesus for 3 or 3 1/2 years at most. The disciples learned that He was "a integral part of God"- something they never knew before, SOMEONE they never knew before. So now He was teaching them: Yes, you know God and believe in Him, now I want you to know Me,that I am an integral part of God, and believe in ME also, just like you believe in God, because I am God.
It is easy to see that they had doubts at times, knowing that they had never known this about God before.

So the verse could have been written (or at least that's how I understand it): Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me, because I am God.

All I can say is that you've completely re-written the verse and re-created the narrative to introduce something not in any way in the context or demonstrably in their understanding.

I simply stated what I think the verse means. Note that I deliberately did not put it in quotes, knowing that those are not the original words. Haven't you ever done that?