Worship Songs

[Homer]

Today this was one of the worship songs and the words leave me troubled, even though I regard myself as trinitarian:

https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=41&q=l ... A1&PC=U531

"Its all about you Jesus"

Seems to me it isn't all about Jesus.

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’”

Am I off base here? Being long in years I do not recall in the old days so much of the worship songs being directed to Jesus.

[Otherness]

Hi Homer,

Certainly one has to be circumspect about this, but the thing is...the more into the “Jesus of the Bible” (Who is in the bosom of the Father) we are, the more “in the Father” will we be, and the more will we be overflowing with His (Life giving) Spirit. It's kind of like a positive feedback loop, kind of borrowing conceptually from Matthew 25:29.

Our God, existing as He does in His triune creative state of Being, is essentially (ontologically) Other-centered. When we are perfected in His “ image and likeness” all we will be, in our nature, IS love-for-the-other.

[dizerner]

that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. (Jn. 5:23 NKJ)


Just as—identical to.

You cannot logically separate the Trinity like that, to worship ONE is to worship ALL THREE.

[dizerner]

Our God, existing as He does in His triune creative state of Being, is essentially (ontologically) Other-centered. When we are perfected in His “ image and likeness” all we will be, in our nature, IS love-for-the-other.

We are commanded to love our self as well, but of course to love God first.

When we are perfected we will love God FIRST, and that love will then love ourselves and others NEXT.

"Other orientation" for God OR creation is idolatry.

[mikew]

Today this was one of the worship songs and the words leave me troubled, even though I regard myself as trinitarian:

https://www.bing.com/search?pglt=41&q=l ... A1&PC=U531

"Its all about you Jesus"

Seems to me it isn't all about Jesus.

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’”

Am I off base here? Being long in years I do not recall in the old days so much of the worship songs being directed to Jesus.

It is fine to worship Jesus. But those lyrics seem too weird. I think the first improvement would be say "i worship you Jesus" rather than saying "it's all about you Jesus." But there is other stuff that is hard to narrow down -- i.e., to make sure we are on the narrow path.

[Otherness]

Greetings Brother Dizerner,

Please elaborate on your thoughts here so I can get a better sense of how my words precipitated them. Your first two sentences kind of tie together, but...perhaps if you expand on them, I could agree – completely.

On the other hand, your last thought leaves me just...wondering. Loving God with all our heart and soul and mind and strength is not idolatry simply because (the true) God cannot be loved too much. To lose oneself in (the true) God is to find what (and who) oneself really is. And then to have that very same “love for the world” that God has (John 3:16), is to live in it for His purpose for creating it.

[darinhouston]

that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. (Jn. 5:23 NKJ)


Just as—identical to.

You cannot logically separate the Trinity like that, to worship ONE is to worship ALL THREE.

Jn 5:23 doesn't convey the act of worship - it uses the same word for honor as it does when we are told to honor our mother and father. Honoring our mother and father honors God. And if the Son and the Father are separate persons, then they each deserve their own separate honor.

[dizerner]

Greetings Brother Dizerner,

Please elaborate on your thoughts here so I can get a better sense of how my words precipitated them. Your first two sentences kind of tie together, but...perhaps if you expand on them, I could agree – completely.

On the other hand, your last thought leaves me just...wondering. Loving God with all our heart and soul and mind and strength is not idolatry simply because (the true) God cannot be loved too much. To lose oneself in (the true) God is to find what (and who) oneself really is. And then to have that very same “love for the world” that God has (John 3:16), is to live in it for His purpose for creating it.

You are equating the word "other" with the word "God."

Those do not necessarily correlate. If God is "other" oriented, this means God is oriented on something OTHER than himself—patently false, because God receives the worship of all things.

To put ANY "other" in the place of God is idolatry—it is taking his place.

If you equate "other" with "God" in ALL circumstances, you should instead term it "God-centered."

People seem to often fall under the misapprehension that because God committed the ultimate sacrifice for humans, this means God "put humans first above himself."

This is logically false—the whole reason God had to sacrifice at all was God's own established rules, God's own established holiness, God's own requirements for atoning sin, and God's desire to be glorified and share his glory—all God-centered.

God's sacrifice was GOD-centered, and NOT "other-centered," which equates to valuing something above or equal to God.

I hope that clears it up.

[dwight92070]

It sounds like your brain is really ticking away here - there's a lot of intellectual stuff being said. This doesn't fit with what you've previously said about relying on our brains. I guess if you do it, it's okay. If we do it, then we are necessarily relying on our brains, instead of God.

[dizerner]

It sounds like your brain is really ticking away here - there's a lot of intellectual stuff being said. This doesn't fit with what you've previously said about relying on our brains. I guess if you do it, it's okay. If we do it, then we are necessarily relying on our brains, instead of God.

Perverse logic.

If one knows spiritual truths and uses spiritual words, the brain is involved but not central, like intuitive truths.

As you can see on here—intellectual logic never does anything to persuade anyone, even you.

I trust the Spirit to communicate what I'm saying and convict the perverse spirit.

Exalting, relying, and depending on the mind is the pride of the flesh.