Christians and the Covid Vaccine

[backwoodsman]

One thing that makes this data so interesting is that it is the government's own medicare data

That's basically been the case with everything Covid right from the start. When I first researched Covid back in March of last year, I found that all one needs to see that most of what we're being told is lies and half-truths, is the official data from official and other verifiable sources, and a minimal amount of critical thinking ability. And I've found that to be consistently true from then until now. This is absolutely the most transparent large-scale deception I've ever seen. It's simply mind-boggling that enough people are still being fooled, and not just willingly but eagerly so, that's it's been able to be perpetrated for this long. And, given the title of this thread, I'll note that it's really sad and tragic to see so many Christians, who of all people should know better, buying so wholeheartedly into the deception, and playing right into all the divisiveness we're being force-fed.

[darinhouston]

This really does say it all.

[Homer]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... d=msedgntp

[darinhouston]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... d=msedgntp

Not a lot of detail there to respond to other than to say I don't believe it, it's selective data from "16 states", doesn't distinguish between recovered and not, and --- more importantly -- is wholly irrelevant to whether getting vaccinated is loving towards others since the relative death rate is a personal risk issue not a risk to others issue.

[Homer]

Backwoodsman wrote:

Homer, you've several times said some very uncharitable, very ungracious things about Christians who won't get the vaccine. Now you know those unchristlike opinions are based on lies and deliberate misrepresentations of the data.There really is no excuse for a Christian to allow himself to think such evil things about his brothers as you've repeatedly stated about us.

First of all my apologies to anyone I have hurt. That is certainly far from my intent. I haver gone over my posts in this thread multiple times and have not been able to find anything that would seem to fit into what you have described. Please enlighten me.

You wrote:

This is absolutely the most transparent large-scale deception I've ever seen.

Many of the people in the Trump administration who were leading the fight against the pandemic and were involved in expediting the development of the covid-19 vaccine appear to be, as far as I can find, followers of Christ. Are these the people you say are deliberately lying and manipulating data? If not them, who? And more importantly what do you believe to be their motive?

From an interview with Dr. Leana Wen, emergency physician and professor of health policy and management at the George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health.

"Think of the Covid-19 vaccine as a very good raincoat. It works very well to protect you in a drizzle. But if you're in a thunderstorm, and then a hurricane comes, there's a much greater chance that you'll get wet. That doesn't mean your raincoat is defective. It means that you are in bad weather, and the raincoat alone may not always protect you.

If you are around a lot of virus, that increases your chance of getting infected. The problem isn't the vaccine -- it's that there is too much virus around you.

Question: If you can still die after being vaccinated for Covid-19, what's the point of getting the vaccine?

Darin, I'm sure you are a good man, badly mistaken. You wrote:

Not a lot of detail there to respond to other than to say I don't believe it, it's selective data from "16 states", doesn't distinguish between recovered and not, and --- more importantly -- is wholly irrelevant to whether getting vaccinated is loving towards others since the relative death rate is a personal risk issue not a risk to others issue.

This is manifestly not just an individual choice that has no effect on others. Please read the following:

Dr. Leana Wen: We need to start with the science and what the research shows. The Covid-19 vaccines are extraordinarily effective in preventing illness and especially severe disease. The most recent data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that they reduce the likelihood of testing positive for Covid-19 by six-fold and the likelihood of death by 11-fold.

That means that if you are vaccinated, you are six times less likely to get Covid-19 than someone who's unvaccinated. And you are 11 times less likely to die from Covid-19 compared to an unvaccinated person. That's really excellent.

However, the Covid-19 vaccines do not protect you 100%. No vaccine does, just like virtually no medical treatment is 100% effective. That doesn't mean the vaccine doesn't work, or that you shouldn't take it.

Question: Are some people more likely to have severe outcomes from Covid-19, despite vaccination?

Wen: Yes, and based on what have learned, General Powell fell into that category. We know that individuals who are older and have underlying medical conditions are more likely to suffer severe illness and to die following breakthrough infections. Those at particular risk are people who are immunocompromised. Having multiple myeloma would put General Powell into this category, and, in addition to his older age, would add to the level of risk.

Note that this is one of the reasons booster shots are being recommended. Back in August, federal health officials recommended that people with moderate or severe immunocompromise, who had the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, receive a third dose of the vaccine. They warned that even with the additional dose, immunocompromised individuals should take additional precautions. That's because this is a category of people who are particularly susceptible to severe outcomes.

Question: You've said before that vaccines work best when everyone takes them, right?

Wen: Exactly. Think of the Covid-19 vaccine as a very good raincoat. It works very well to protect you in a drizzle. But if you're in a thunderstorm, and then a hurricane comes, there's a much greater chance that you'll get wet. That doesn't mean your raincoat is defective. It means that you are in bad weather, and the raincoat alone may not always protect you.

If you are around a lot of virus, that increases your chance of getting infected. The problem isn't the vaccine -- it's that there is too much virus around you.

That's why the key is to get as many people vaccinated as possible. That reduces the overall rate of infection and ends up protecting everyone. And, if you are in an area with a lot of virus, wearing a mask in indoor crowded spaces adds an additional level of protection.

And let's not forget that we also get vaccinated to protect the most vulnerable among us, who are at the highest risk for severe outcomes.

That last sentence called to mind Jesus' words:

Matthew 25:40
Revised Standard Version
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’

My wife has had two shots plus the booster. She is in "the most vulnerable" category.

I just read yesterday an expert who commented that we have run out of time to prevent covid from becoming endemic.

[darinhouston]

Darin, I'm sure you are a good man, badly mistaken. You wrote:
Not a lot of detail there to respond to other than to say I don't believe it, it's selective data from "16 states", doesn't distinguish between recovered and not, and --- more importantly -- is wholly irrelevant to whether getting vaccinated is loving towards others since the relative death rate is a personal risk issue not a risk to others issue.
This is manifestly not just an individual choice that has no effect on others. Please read the following:
Dr. Leana Wen: We need to start with the science and what the research shows. The Covid-19 vaccines are extraordinarily effective in preventing illness and especially severe disease. The most recent data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that they reduce the likelihood of testing positive for Covid-19 by six-fold and the likelihood of death by 11-fold.

That means that if you are vaccinated, you are six times less likely to get Covid-19 than someone who's unvaccinated. And you are 11 times less likely to die from Covid-19 compared to an unvaccinated person. That's really excellent.

However, the Covid-19 vaccines do not protect you 100%. No vaccine does, just like virtually no medical treatment is 100% effective. That doesn't mean the vaccine doesn't work, or that you shouldn't take it.

There is a LOTTTT more to say about Dr. Leana Wen and her positions on this (and other things) but don't have the time just now -- suffice it to say there are very few people more given in to the deception of the "spirit of this age" and trying harder to deceive the public than this woman. Her background is about as "deep state" a globalist as it gets and is an activist, plain and simple. (as a coincidence..... or not.... she happened to be in the Boston ER for the drills leading up to the Boston Marathon and during the trauma to follow).

Did you know she used to be President of Planned Parenthood?

Oh, and conventional vaccines are not seen as "raincoats." Any truth to that is because this isn't a conventional vaccine -- it is a genetic prophylactic therapeutic... nothing more.

[dwight92070]

Homer,

If all of that is true, then please answer this question: Why did the government NEVER follow the same policy with the flu vaccine? Why did they NOT mandate vaccines with the threat of losing your job? Doesn't the flu kill thousands every year, world-wide? Why is what the government is doing now "compassionate" and saving lives - and yet there never was an equivalent and massive "push" (really, threat) to get the flu vaccine?

How can it be that you're not even a little bit suspicious of the EVIL action of this president and his administration to attempt to FORCE people to get the China virus "vaccination", or else they are fired and lose their means of supporting themselves and their children? Yes, Trump supported and pushed for a vaccine. BUT HE NEVER THREATENED PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT IT, THAT THEY WOULD BE FIRED! NOR WOULD HE, BECAUSE HE IS NOT A SOCIALIST DICTATOR LIKE BIDEN WANTS TO BE.

None of us, including Christians, should roll over and allow a Socialist to take away our freedom to choose what goes into our body. The government has NO business meddling in our personal medical choices, nor do they have ANY BUSINESS telling ANY company to fire their employees who refuse the jab.
But it appears that none of this raises a "red flag" for you. Nor does it seem to bother you that this administration ENCOURAGES HATRED for those who have chosen not to get the jab. Also the media chimes in and adds to that hatred. Hollywood also chimes in. The Democrats also chime in. They want to single out the un-vaccinated for firing, persecution, and "cancellation", but apparently you don't have any problem with all of these evil and unconstitutional actions, ruining people's live and their family's lives, causing businesses to close, shutting down or devastating police departments, hospitals, airlines, government agencies, etc. where the employees have chosen to exercise their God-given freedom to not get the vaccine, and then getting illegally, and immorally fired.

[dwight92070]

Nor would Trump basically outlaw hydroxychoriquine and ivermectin, as Biden and his fellow socialists have done. These are the two drugs that have proven to be the most effective way of saving people's lives, but if a doctor is found prescribing them, they lose their license, thanks to Biden. The largest "state" in the world is in India, comprised of 220 million people and the state is virtually COVID-FREE! Why? Because their government CARES for their sick and ALLOWS IVERMECTIN TO HEAL THE MASSES! But apparently that doesn't bother you????

[darinhouston]

I might also note that (to my understanding) herd immunity (which she speaks of often in support of vaccination) is a concept to protect the unvaccinated -- NOT the vaccinated. That's a very novel perspective. Everything we've ever known about virology and immunology has been turned on its head by the media "darlings" like Wen and it's as clear a deception that's every been foisted on the world. It's almost enough to turn me into a Dispensationalist (or at least a futurist in regards an antichrist and false prophet and so forth). Did I mention her dad was a propagandist for the communists in China and her husband is a leftist journo formerly wity Al Qaida? Not to mention her "Rhodes" scholarship. I will say that she is brilliant - and she knows full well what she's doing -- she graduated college at 18. From her bio, I highly suspect she's an early "intelligence" asset and I also think this whole thing has been an intelligence operation (at least in part) against our country towards a globalist end.

From the Wikipedia entry....

Herd immunity (also called herd effect, community immunity, population immunity, or mass immunity) is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that can occur with some diseases when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination,[1] thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity.[2][3][4] Immune individuals are unlikely to contribute to disease transmission, disrupting chains of infection, which stops or slows the spread of disease.[5] The greater the proportion of immune individuals in a community, the smaller the probability that non-immune individuals will come into contact with an infectious individual.[2]

If anything, she's admitting the vaccine is not effective at conferring immunity, but that begs the question how further vaccination will do this. (especially as these vaccines are so leaky the vaccinated are spreading the disease at least as much as the unvaccinated).

[Homer]

If anything will, this article should give pause to any antivaxxer who claims to be a follower of Christ:

https://www.proclaimanddefend.org/2020/ ... overnment/

I am in complete agreement with what he has to say; and he says it much better than I could. I was making notes preparing to post on Romans13 when I ran across the article. He saved me a lot of time.

Philippians 2:3-4
New American Standard Bible 1995
3. Do nothing a from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4. do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.