What are your thoughts concerning universalism?

[Paidion]

"Universalism" is the position that sooner or later, everyone who has ever lived will submit to God and be reconciled to Him. The early Christian, Origen, taught that this will be the case with all people and even with Satan. Here is what Origen wrote:

This restoration to unity must not be imagined as a sudden happening. Rather it is to be thought of as gradually effected by stages during the passing of countless ages. Little by little and individually the correction and purification will be accomplished. Some will lead the way and climb to the heights with swifter progress, others following right behind them; yet others will be far behind. Thus multitudes of individuals and countless orders, who were once enemies, will advance and reconcile themselves to God; and so at length the last enemy will be reached. (Origen A.D. 184-253, De Principiis, III. vi. 6)

[Homer]

My thought is that universalism would be nice if true and justice was somehow accomplished. How would justice be served in the cases of Stalin and Hitler?

Origen was a great mind and he engaged in a great amount of speculation which he seems to have confused with truth.

[dwight92070]

One major problem with that view is that if someone accepts it, it's awfully easy to just sit back, relax, do nothing or very little, because everyone is going to be saved anyway, including ourselves. So you might as well eat, drink, and be merry, because you'll still be saved.

Is that what Jesus did? Is that what He told us to do? NO, He repeatedly warned us of a place where there is unquenchable fire and weeping and gnashing of teeth. In essence, He's saying, "Trust Me, you don't want to go there!"

[Paidion]

The Universalist position is not "Everyone is going to be saved anyway so I might just as well do what I like."

Rather the position is that sooner or later everyone will repent (have a change of mind) concerning his former life,
and submit to the authority of God and His beloved Son. Why will they repent? Why would Hitler repent? Because of God's continuing influence upon every individual. It may take a million years or more for some to turn around. But there is an infinite amount of time in the future, and eventually everyone will make that choice, not out of force, but out of his own free will, responding to the influence of God. THAT is the universalist position.

[dwight92070]

So, in the mean time, before they repent, they are not suffering in flames and they are not in a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth?

[Homer]

Paidion,

You wrote:

It may take a million years or more for some to turn around.

Highly implausible!

Consider:

Revelation 1:17
New American Standard Bible 1995
17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man.

I would think that any notorious sinner such as Hitler or Stalin would have the same reaction John describes and would have to be "dumber than a stump" to not repent on the spot. Why would you think otherwise when confronted by Christ and hell?

[Paidion]

You may be right.
I was merely considering the fact that there a lot of stubborn people out there.
So there may be a significant number who will resist for a long time.

[steve]

The salvation of notorious sinners like Hitler and Stalin would be no more unjust than the salvation of you or me. We are all sinners, and do not deserve salvation. As I understand it, God set forth Christ as a propitiation so that He could be just and the justifier of all who believe in Jesus. Thus, it is not unjust for God to forgive me, nor for Him to forgive Hitler—assuming that both Hitler and I believe on Christ. If Hitler would do so post-mortem, and God should choose to forgive him, I don't see how this would be more a miscarriage of justice than if he had repented a moment before death. Does the Bible say anywhere that it would be less just for God to forgive the one who repents moments after death than for Him to forgive those who repent moments earlier than death?

And, if God is not willing that any should ultimately perish, can anyone inform me why He would not do something like this?

Can anyone explain what I am missing in my logic or my orthodoxy?

[darinhouston]

I certainly can't.

[Homer]

Interesting that those who lecture against the potential harm of the eternal security teaching would speak and teach favorably of a post resurrection repentance that brings salvation!

Polycarp at his martyrdom:

“You threaten me with fire which burns for an hour, and is then extinguished, but you know nothing of the fire of the coming judgment and eternal punishment, reserved for the ungodly. Why are you waiting? Bring on whatever you want.”

So Hitler, when confronted by Christ on Judgement day, falls to his knees in terror, repents, and winds up immediately in the same condition as Polycarp! Nowhere do we read in scripture that this isn't so - saved not by faith but by sight, and a horrible, fearful sight at that.

Does the Bible say anywhere that it would be less just for God to forgive the one who repents moments after death than for Him to forgive those who repent moments earlier than death?

I do not believe the scriptures contemplate the possibility. It seems very much that they do not:

Hebrews 9:27-28
New American Standard Bible 1995
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Is there a scripture somewhere that informs us of after death repentance and salvation?