Debate "Is the Sabbath Binding in the New Covenant?"

[jacobjohn]

Dear All,

Would be grateful if this debate
(Friday, March 30th, 2018
7:00 PM to 9:00 PM • Debate; "Is the Sabbath Binding in the New Covenant?")

is recorded, would be grateful if you could point me to somebody I can contact. We are in India and the time difference makes it hard for some of us to catch the live feed (if done).

Thanks,
Jacob

[steve]

Hi Jacob,

We are hoping to live-stream the video of the debate, but I don't know how this is being done. I believe it will be seen at the "amazing facts" website (Doug's ministry). It is my hope that it will be simultaneously streamed to the narrow path Facebook page, but I am not in charge of those things. In any case, I am sure it will be posted at the narrow path YouTube channel afterward, so that, if you miss the live stream, it can be viewed at any time later, at your convenience.

[jacobjohn]

Got it, thanks Steve.
Jacob

[Cheryl]

I wonder how Doug justifies participating in a debate on the Sabbath.

[MMathis]

Anyone have trouble with the audio up until Steve says a few words? Mine is all jumpy then seems to be okay. So, I missed the set up discussion prior to Steve's presentation.
Have not watched the Q & A portion yet.

[Biblegate]

Dear All,

Would be grateful if this debate
(Friday, March 30th, 2018
7:00 PM to 9:00 PM • Debate; "Is the Sabbath Binding in the New Covenant?")

is recorded, would be grateful if you could point me to somebody I can contact. We are in India and the time difference makes it hard for some of us to catch the live feed (if done).

Thanks,
Jacob

Here is the link to the video on YouTube, brother.

https://youtu.be/n71YIxhR_xE

[MMathis]

I grew up in a SDA community until I was out of high school. I went to their grade school through 8th grade and public school through HS. Went to their church fairly regular until mid high school. After I graduated I joined the Marine Corp and in boot camp when they were yelling and preparing dog tags, I shouted Presbyterian. No idea what made me do that. I still have those dog tags. I got a couple Purple Hearts in the DMZ and upon receiving the 3rd one, they made me go back to Okinawa.
Entered university when I was 49 years old and graduated with high honors.

What does all that mean? Probably nothing. I listened to the debate with great interest and still not sure why. I think I had some feeling that Steve was stepping on my traditions albeit I haven't been to a SDA church since I was about 15 or so.

I've listened to it twice now and cannot see a clear winner. I thought Steve presented his ideas well and Doug couldn't stay out of the OT long enough to form a good argument except to say no 10% discounts on the 10 Commandments.

I guess I don't care if they keep Saturday or Catholics keep Sunday. I think Ellen White would have been a target rich evronment but Steve didn't take any security, so maybe that would not have been pretty.

I guess I just didn't see what difference it makes.

[Singalphile]

I enjoyed the debate, though there wasn't really much debating. Both men presented and conducted themselves well, I think.

It's been a few days, and I only listened once, but this is my take (without getting into the debate topic itself):

Doug's presentation seemed a little more emotional, plain, and simple. Steve's tended to be more analytical, explanatory, and thus more complicated. So Steve's arguments were harder to follow. That is to be expected in this case. I don't recall that Doug attempted to rebut Steve's interpretation of any specific biblical references. I remember that Steve did examine and explain his view on Doug's arguments in his cross-examination time.

I have been watching a number of debates recently, and I have a suggestion (just in case the people in charge of debates are reading this ):

Each side should have at least one good, long period of Q&A time during which it gets to completely control the discussion. That means if the controlling side says, "stop," the other side must immediately stop talking without complaint, and so on. I can't see any other way to get the two sides to focus and really get to the heart of a matter without sidestepping, missing the point, misunderstanding, talking past each other, digressing, and just generally wasting time.

[Si]

I have not finished the debate yet, so maybe this issue was brought up. But there is one thing concerning defining the sabbath that has always bugged me:

Isn't the definition of what constitutes the seventh day of the week kind of arbitrary? God didn't invent the day "Saturday", Anglo-Saxons did. It is named after the Roman god Saturn. Sunday and Monday are named after the sun and moon, and the other days after Anglo-Saxon gods. This is not a biblical way of accounting for the week, but a man-made one. I have seen plenty of calendars that run Monday through Sunday, presenting Sunday as the seventh day. Most weekly planners are set up as such. Because most people work Monday through Friday, Monday naturally "feels" like the first day, and Sunday the last day. Many times I have heard Christians refer to Sunday as the Sabbath.

Apart from adhering to an ancient Israelite calendar system, how do we define the seventh day? Apart from some God-ordained weekly calendar, Isn't the "seventh day" or Sabbath defined by what a group of people collectively decide it is?

[Singalphile]

Isn't the definition of what constitutes the seventh day of the week kind of arbitrary? God didn't invent the day "Saturday", Anglo-Saxons did. It is named after the Roman god Saturn. Sunday and Monday are named after the sun and moon, and the other days after Anglo-Saxon gods. This is not a biblical way of accounting for the week, but a man-made one. ....
Apart from adhering to an ancient Israelite calendar system, how do we define the seventh day? Apart from some God-ordained weekly calendar, Isn't the "seventh day" or Sabbath defined by what a group of people collectively decide it is?

Yeah, I've had similar thoughts. Is our "Saturday" really the 7the day going back for thousands of years? It doesn't seem likely, though I don't know.

Doug B. sometimes spoke about how the Sabbath was made for us and how the rest is good for us and so on. If that's the reason for the day, then what difference does it make which day it is, as long as some 24 hours of rest is involved?