Heads Up, Old earth/Young Earth Advocates

[Homer]

If you get NRB network here is something highly interesting:

From NRB network schedule, Socrates in the City, Nov. 28, 5PM eastern time, program 80+ minutes:

Eric Metaxas and Socrates in the City present an evening with John Lennox, Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University, at the Union Club in New York City on January 31, 2013. Dr. Lennox explores a method for reading and interpreting the first chapters of Genesis without discounting either science or Scripture. Afterward Metaxas is heard asking, "Why didn't I ever have any math teachers like this?"

If you have never heard John Lennox you have really missed something. His bio:

John Lennox is Professor of Mathematics in the University of Oxford, Fellow in Mathematics and the Philosophy of Science, and Pastoral Advisor at Green Templeton College, Oxford. He is also an adjunct Lecturer at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford University and at the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics (OCCA) and is a Senior Fellow of the Trinity Forum. In addition, he teaches for the Oxford Strategic Leadership Programme at the Executive Education Centre, Said Business School, Oxford University.

He studied at the Royal School Armagh, Northern Ireland and was Exhibitioner and Senior Scholar at Emmanuel College, Cambridge University from which he took his MA, MMath and PhD. He worked for many years in the Mathematics Institute at the University of Wales in Cardiff which awarded him a DSc for his research. He also holds a DPhil from Oxford University and an MA in Bioethics from the University of Surrey. He was a Senior Alexander Von Humboldt Fellow at the Universities of Wuerzburg and Freiburg in Germany. In addition to over seventy published mathematical papers he is the co-author of two research level texts in algebra in the Oxford Mathematical Monographs series.

He is very interested in the interface between science, philosophy and theology and his books on those topics include God’s Undertaker: Has Science Buried God?, God and Stephen Hawking, Seven Days that Divide the World and Gunning for God. His most recent title (out in early 2015) is Against the Flow: The Life and Witness of Daniel. He has lectured extensively in North America, Eastern and Western Europe on mathematics, the philosophy of science and the intellectual defence of Christianity. He has also debated a number of prominent atheists including Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Peter Singer.

Doctorates in mathematics, science, and philosophy, plus a masters in bioethics!

[darinhouston]

If you get NRB network here is something highly interesting:

From NRB network schedule, Socrates in the City, Nov. 28, 5PM eastern time, program 80+ minutes:

Eric Metaxas and Socrates in the City present an evening with John Lennox, Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University, at the Union Club in New York City on January 31, 2013. Dr. Lennox explores a method for reading and interpreting the first chapters of Genesis without discounting either science or Scripture. Afterward Metaxas is heard asking, "Why didn't I ever have any math teachers like this?"

If you have never heard John Lennox you have really missed something. His bio:

John Lennox is Professor of Mathematics in the University of Oxford, Fellow in Mathematics and the Philosophy of Science, and Pastoral Advisor at Green Templeton College, Oxford. He is also an adjunct Lecturer at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford University and at the Oxford Centre for Christian Apologetics (OCCA) and is a Senior Fellow of the Trinity Forum. In addition, he teaches for the Oxford Strategic Leadership Programme at the Executive Education Centre, Said Business School, Oxford University.

He studied at the Royal School Armagh, Northern Ireland and was Exhibitioner and Senior Scholar at Emmanuel College, Cambridge University from which he took his MA, MMath and PhD. He worked for many years in the Mathematics Institute at the University of Wales in Cardiff which awarded him a DSc for his research. He also holds a DPhil from Oxford University and an MA in Bioethics from the University of Surrey. He was a Senior Alexander Von Humboldt Fellow at the Universities of Wuerzburg and Freiburg in Germany. In addition to over seventy published mathematical papers he is the co-author of two research level texts in algebra in the Oxford Mathematical Monographs series.

He is very interested in the interface between science, philosophy and theology and his books on those topics include God’s Undertaker: Has Science Buried God?, God and Stephen Hawking, Seven Days that Divide the World and Gunning for God. His most recent title (out in early 2015) is Against the Flow: The Life and Witness of Daniel. He has lectured extensively in North America, Eastern and Western Europe on mathematics, the philosophy of science and the intellectual defence of Christianity. He has also debated a number of prominent atheists including Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Peter Singer.

Doctorates in mathematics, science, and philosophy, plus a masters in bioethics!

Is this it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y-AGFfKZFM

[Homer]

Is this it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y-AGFfKZFM

Sure looks like it. I enjoy watching with my wife on TV and have it (Direct TV box) set up to automatically record all Socrates in the City and Ravi Zacharias programs so we can watch together at our convenience. I think NRB has much more worthwhile stuff than any other Christian network I have seen.

Got to see Dallas Willard speak also; he is really good.

[Paidion]

I want to personally thank you, Homer, for introducing the works of John Lennox to me. There are many of his lectures, debates, and short answers to students' questions on youtube. I rejoice that such a man exists!

[jriccitelli]

i wish i had watched this John Lennox thing before, but does anyone know anything about the word 'firmament' used in genesis 1 and the ancient understanding of what was above or below it? I am off to debate a group of Atheists and such who say it meant a hard cover and thus makes Genesis mythology or something... any input?

[TheEditor]

Hi JR,

I know you aren't fond of anything JW (as I am not much these days either) but they did put out an okay Bible Dictionary many years ago. The following is from that and contains some thoughts on this word "firmament".

Expanse

The Greek Septuagint used the word ste‧re′o‧ma (meaning “a firm and solid structure”) to translate the Hebrew ra‧qi′aʽ, and the Latin Vulgate used the Latin term firmamentum, which also conveys the idea of something solid and firm. The King James Version, the Revised Standard Version, and many others follow suit in translating ra‧qi′aʽ by the word “firmament.” However, in its marginal reading the King James Version gives the alternate reading “expansion,” and the American Standard Version gives “expanse” in its footnote. Other translations support such rendering—“expanse” (Ro; Fn; Yg; An; NW); “expansión” (VM [Spanish]); “étendue [extent or expanse]” (Segond; Ostervald [French]).

Some endeavor to show that the ancient Hebrew concept of the universe included the idea of a solid vault arched over the earth, with sluice holes through which rain could enter and with the stars fixed within this solid vault, diagrams of such concept appearing in Bible dictionaries and some Bible translations. Commenting on this attitude, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia states: “But this assumption is in reality based more upon the ideas prevalent in Europe during the Dark Ages than upon any actual statements in the O[ld] T[estament].”—Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. I, p. 314.

While it is true that the root word (ra‧qaʽ′) from which ra‧qi′aʽ is drawn is regularly used in the sense of “beating out” something solid, whether by hand, by foot, or by any instrument (compare Ex 39:3; Eze 6:11), in some cases it is not sound reasoning to rule out a figurative use of the word. Thus at Job 37:18 Elihu asks concerning God: “With him can you beat out [tar‧qi′aʽ] the skies hard like a molten mirror?” That the literal beating out of some solid celestial vault is not meant can be seen from the fact that the word “skies” here comes from a word (sha′chaq) also rendered “film of dust” or “clouds” (Isa 40:15; Ps 18:11), and in view of the nebulous quality of that which is ‘beaten out,’ it is clear that the Bible writer is only figuratively comparing the skies to a metal mirror whose burnished face gives off a bright reflection.—Compare Da 12:3.

So, too, with the “expanse” produced on the second creative “day,” no solid substance is described as being beaten out but, rather, the creation of an open space, or division, between the waters covering the earth and other waters above the earth. It thus describes the formation of the atmospheric expanse surrounding the earth and indicates that at one time there was no clear division or open space but that the entire globe was previously enveloped in water vapor. This also accords with scientific reasoning on the early stages of the planet’s formation and the view that at one time all of earth’s water existed in the form of atmospheric vapor because of the extreme heat of the earth’s surface at that point.

That the Hebrew writers of the Bible did not conceive of the sky as originally formed of burnished metal is evident from the warning given through Moses to Israel that, in the event of their disobedience to God, “Your skies that are over your head must also become copper, and the earth that is beneath you iron,” thus metaphorically describing the effects of intense heat and severe drought upon the skies and land of Israel.—De 28:23, 24.

Similarly, it is obvious that the ancient Hebrews held no pagan concept as to the existence of literal “windows” in the arch of the sky through which earth’s rain descended. Very accurately and scientifically the writer of Job quotes Elihu in describing the process by which rain clouds are formed when he states, at Job 36:27, 28: “For he draws up the drops of water; they filter as rain for his mist, so that the clouds [shecha‧qim′] trickle, they drip upon mankind abundantly.” Likewise, the expression “floodgates [ʼarub‧both′] of the heavens” clearly manifests a figurative expression.—Compare Ge 7:11; 2Ki 7:1, 2, 19; Mal 3:10; see also Pr 3:20; Isa 5:6; 45:8; Jer 10:13.

In his vision of heavenly arrangements, Ezekiel describes “the likeness of an expanse like the sparkle of awesome ice” over the heads of the four living creatures. The account is filled with figurative expressions.—Eze 1:22-26; 10:1.

Hope this helps,

Regards, Brenden.

[morbo3000]

I want to 2nd the kudos for pointing out John Lennox. I'm watching his debate with Richard Dawkins right now. So glad to know about him.


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