Full Preterism Could Have Changed The World?

[robbyyoung]

Hello All and God Bless.

The obvious major difference between Full Preterist's and others is "The Timing" or consummation of eschatological events. When I accepted the Full Preterist paradigm, one of the first thoughts that came to mind was how this realization would have changed the course of history. Hitler's atrocities, The Inquisition, The establishment of a Jewish State by Zionist, etc.., and how about the agnostics and atheists, who sit on or off "The Bench" because of supposed "failed prophecies" regarding Yeshua's time statements concerning His return. How many of these people would have been converted if The Full Preterist Paradigm would've been taught?

Look what's going on in The Middle East and how America's Christian leaders put so much effort into Israeli preservation, based on a futuristic eschatology, come hell or high water! If you have studied the Full Preterist position, and find yourself in agreement with its conclusion, what are your thoughts on how the course of history could have been changed? And for that matter, how the future can and will benefit?

For those who do not adhere to this paradigm, for whatever reason, I believe you can participate, other than trying to denounce the position, either in part or fully, and that's fine. But nevertheless, the post is geared to stimulate discussion on the FP possibilities of our current and future worldview, as we reflect on the decisions made from a futuristic mindset of the past.

Peace be with you.

[Michelle]

Hi robbyyoung,

I'm not a Full Preterist, but I'm hoping you'll entertain my question. I have never considered how history would be altered if certain theological constructs were more widely embraced. The historical event you mentioned that arouses my interest the most is the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich. How do you believe widespread acceptance of Full Preterism would have altered European twentieth century history?

Thanks,
Michelle

[mattrose]

My 2 cents...

I think there are 2 theological paradigms that have played a role in some of the tragedies you speak of

APATHY
One theological paradigm that sometimes causes apathy is determinism. The idea that the blueprint has already been made and will be followed precisely no matter what causes people not to get involved, positively, in changing history.

AGGRESSIVENESS
One theological paradigm that sometimes causes aggressiveness is Zionism. The idea that certain things have to happen for the dispensational model to play out has caused some to try to force those things to happen.

Personally, I can't even imagine a scenario where the whole world embraced full-preterism since, in my opinion, it is so unconvincing. Any good 'NOW AND NOT YET' theology has all the advantages of full preterism without its obvious deficiencies. I don't see how a world wide embrace of partial-preterism would be any worse off in resolving the issues you raised (like atheists rejecting faith b/c of unfulfilled prophecy).

[backwoodsman]

I think there's only one teaching, or idea, that would've radically changed the world had it gained wider acceptance in the church: The Great Commission. Imagine what the world might've been like by now if the church had, from day one, simply spread the gospel, made converts, and then followed Jesus' final instruction to turn those converts into disciples of Jesus.

It's too late to go back and do it right from the beginning, but better late than never.

[dwilkins]

As far as politics and national policy goes I think that Matt is right that there wouldn't be a huge difference between Partial Preterism and Full Preterism in as much they both propose that the Jews were judged by God in 66-73AD as predicted by the New Testament. The reason that's important is that Christian doctrine ignoring this judgment has always resulted in antisemitism. If the Jews were the enemy of the cross, the mutilation, and dogs, and there was a judgment predicted for them in which they'd be punished for being so, then if the punishment hasn't happened then they remain so to this day. Allowing for the fulfillment of this judgment removes this animosity. I think that Full Preterism is far more consistent on this point. Though Luther has some Preterist arguments regarding the rejection of the Jews in 70AD in "The Jews and Their Lies", his failure to recognize that the punishment was exhausted due to his futurist eschatology lead directly to the disaster of the Nazis in WWII .

On the other hand, Dispensationalism clearly contributed very powerfully to the establishment of the current state of Israel. If there was no Dispensationalism there wouldn't be a state of Israel in my opinion. Why did they want it created? Bad eschatology. And, as an extension of bad eschatology they are deliberately trying to create the conditions for Armageddon so that Jesus will return. This is very similar to the Jewish zealots in the first century who saw Daniel's 70AD weeks run out, and so tried to help God by picking a fight with Rome. Bad eschatology results in bad national policy.

There are other implications of how the world would be different, but I'd suggest that most of them can be summarized in an analysis of the rise of Dispensationalism and the contraction of Christianity in the west. When Postmillennialism, which is Partial Preterist as far as I've been able to find, was dominant in Christian doctrine, Christians were dominant in western culture and the kingdom of God was expanding all over the world (sometimes too violently, but expanding nonetheless). Since Full Preterism is the fullest expression of eschatology that sees expanding the kingdom as the primary mission and expectation of the church I think it would have maximized this. On the other end of the spectrum, when Dispensationalism throws up its hands and basically says that no matter how hard you work you will end up losing, the kingdom of God tends to shrink.

Doug

[TheEditor]

I rarely say this, because generally I find the posts well thought out, but I find this kind of humorous. As if any eschatological view would have made humans reaction to Jesus' ministry while in the spirit (post AD 33) any different to the reaction to his ministry while in the flesh. It has always been the matter of "He is a good man"; "No, but he misleads the people"--"Hossanah" one day, "Crucify him" the next. Men spin their webs of control and engage in intrigues quite apart from any true faith. If a person has true faith in God and Christ, their lives will produce good fruit apart from their eschatological paradigm. And the last time I checked, Israel was 80% agnostic....so there you go.

Regards, Brenden.

PS Ditto on what Michelle said regarding the Nazis...

[dwilkins]

I rarely say this, because generally I find the posts well thought out, but I find this kind of humorous. As if any eschatological view would have made humans reaction to Jesus' ministry while in the spirit (post AD 33) any different to the reaction to his ministry while in the flesh. It has always been the matter of "He is a good man"; "No, but he misleads the people"--"Hossanah" one day, "Crucify him" the next. Men spin their webs of control and engage in intrigues quite apart from any true faith. If a person has true faith in God and Christ, their lives will produce good fruit apart from their eschatological paradigm. And the last time I checked, Israel was 80% agnostic....so there you go.

Regards, Brenden.

PS Ditto on what Michelle said regarding the Nazis...

I don't understand your point. Are you saying that no matter what doctrine people follow, if they are believers they will bear good fruit?

Doug

[robbyyoung]

Hi robbyyoung,

I'm not a Full Preterist, but I'm hoping you'll entertain my question. I have never considered how history would be altered if certain theological constructs were more widely embraced. The historical event you mentioned that arouses my interest the most is the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich. How do you believe widespread acceptance of Full Preterism would have altered European twentieth century history?

Thanks,
Michelle

Hello Michelle,

I'm not a Hitler historian by any means, but through the years you pick-up pieces here and there. You can google reputable historian work on the man in order to quickly see how is Christianity was shaped. Here are some examples:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Michelle, Hitler's ideology was shaped by many factors, eschatology being one of them. I appreciated Doug's comment on the matter, as a Preterist, because the ones who are in power, have an eschatological world view and create policy to support it.

God Bless.

[robbyyoung]

Hi robbyyoung,

How do you believe widespread acceptance of Full Preterism would have altered European twentieth century history?

Thanks,
Michelle

Hi Michelle,

Doug, did a good job outlining this. But we could speculate that Hitler's animosity towards the Jews blood guilt would have been diminished, therefore, his focus could have been directed towards a more positive understanding. Hence, no WWII. As far as WWI goes, this can get really wild, because alliances and treaties were based on previous wars and unrest conflated with religious beliefs of the past. The speculation is enormous and I'm sure not up to the task in outlining the possibilities from each domino .

God Bless.

[robbyyoung]

I rarely say this, because generally I find the posts well thought out, but I find this kind of humorous. As if any eschatological view would have made humans reaction to Jesus' ministry while in the spirit (post AD 33) any different to the reaction to his ministry while in the flesh. It has always been the matter of "He is a good man"; "No, but he misleads the people"--"Hossanah" one day, "Crucify him" the next. Men spin their webs of control and engage in intrigues quite apart from any true faith. If a person has true faith in God and Christ, their lives will produce good fruit apart from their eschatological paradigm. And the last time I checked, Israel was 80% agnostic....so there you go.

Regards, Brenden.

PS Ditto on what Michelle said regarding the Nazis...

Hi Brenden,

Sorry you feel this way concerning the post, but its a free country, for now anyways. Nevertheless, we all know what futurism brought to the table, don't we? I believe it errs in eschatology, hence, another perspective is offered to speculate on the "what if" of the past, if an alternate view was taken. Now here's the really bad news, futurism remains center-stage and we already know what this mindset produces in the world. It fosters violence and hatred in world politics, for without it, the end will not come!

Realized eschatology has the potential to making us better stewards of our societies, planet and future endeavors. As opposed to the destructive mindset of futurism, applying what was meant for localized judgment to the entire world! We continue to pay for this mistake dearly.

You my friend, amongst others, hold to this climactic end of all things. So I'm asking, as we(the world community) look back on yesterday's decisions, having the futurist mindset; as bombs fell, the death toll increased by violence, societies unraveled, etc... Could Full Preterism Make A Difference?

You say no. Ok, thanks for your insight.

God Bless.