Putin says "God created us all equal"

[steve7150]

Putin the leader of Russia responded to Obama's speech with an op-ed article in the NY Times. Obama said Americans are extraordinary and have a special responsibility to protect innocent people in Syria from atrocities by tyrants like Assad.
Putin took offense and wrote that every country has unique things about it but no one country is better then the other and to call one country extraordinary is dangerous. He closed by saying that God created us all equal.

What do you think? Did God create everyone equal?

Also do you think it is the right thing to do , to bomb Assad's chemical weapons capability? Assad had used chemical weapons against his own people but he has also bombed them, machine gunned them and shot them among other things. What is the distinction? Also many of Assad's enemies are muslim fanaticals who may take over Syria if he is defeated. Does this matter or is this simply a moral issue? What do you think?

[thrombomodulin]

What do you think? Did God create every [State] equal?

I think Putin was asserting here that all nations are of equal standing, and he was not speaking about the status of individual people, so I'll address the question as quoted above.

The most popular view Christians hold about the State is something like the "divine right of kings". Namely, God has authorized some men to rule (either perpetually, or for a term), and the rest are to be ruled over. I have often wondered how it is that we know any particular person in modern times has really been granted God given authority to rule over others. It couldn't be because of elections, for such was absent in biblical times. It couldn't be by mutual agreement and consent of "the people", because people always disagree with each other and are never unanimous in opinion. It couldn't be from the writing of constitutions, for Nero had none. It couldn't be because they were anointed by a prophet of God, for no one to my knowledge in my lifetime has claimed this credential. It certainly is not due to the ability of some to organize the constructing impressive marble buildings, the wearing suits and ties, or giving grand public speeches.

Does the popular view have any option that does not ultimately consist of identifying the authorized ruler as simply that person (or group of people), who is best skilled at exercising more brute force over his opponents, than his opponents are able to exercise over him in return? If so, the nations are not of equal standing - might makes right. Does it not follow that the losers (or would be losers like Assad) in any international conflict are simply men rebelling against the God given authority granted to a higher earthly power? If someone wishes to say otherwise, then I ask on what basis should the common man who resides in Syria should eventually begin to obey the invading armies leader rather than continuing to submit to their defeated ruler?

[dwilkins]

I vote for staying completely out of this. We have two of the biggest oceans on the planet on either side of us and I propose we start taking advantage of them.

Doug

[steve7150]

I think Putin was asserting here that all nations are of equal standing, and he was not speaking about the status of individual people, so I'll address the question as quoted above.








You are right that the context was about countries but i got the impression Putin's last sentence "we must not forget that God created us equal" is about individual people. To me the idea that God created all countries equal or equal standing doesn't make sense as they were not equal in biblical times or now, but the thought that God created all people equal is a popular belief (i think).

Assuming Putin meant that. what do you think of this idea?

[steve7150]

I vote for staying completely out of this. We have two of the biggest oceans on the planet on either side of us and I propose we start taking advantage of them.

Doug

dwilkins

Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:54 pm




Doug,
Is there any kind of atrocity that could get you to change your mind?

Also what do you think of the statement "God created us equal"?

[backwoodsman]

Is there any kind of atrocity that could get you to change your mind?

Now there's a loaded question.

"Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage -- torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians -- which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by "our" side... The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." -George Orwell, 1945

[steve7150]

steve7150 wrote:Is there any kind of atrocity that could get you to change your mind?


Now there's a loaded question.

"Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage -- torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians -- which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by "our" side... The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." -George Orwell, 1945






Is this a long winded way of rewording what Jesus said about that log in our eye?

[dwilkins]

I vote for staying completely out of this. We have two of the biggest oceans on the planet on either side of us and I propose we start taking advantage of them.

Doug

dwilkins

Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:54 pm




Doug,
Is there any kind of atrocity that could get you to change your mind?

Also what do you think of the statement "God created us equal"?

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that there would be an atrocity worth going to war over. This is certainly of too small a scale and of an ambiguous origin to begin blowing people up.

Doug

[thrombomodulin]

... but the thought that God created all people equal is a popular belief (i think). Assuming Putin meant that. what do you think of this idea?

I guess that would depend on what kind of equality one has in mind. If by this it is meant that we are affirming a certain universal ethical code of ethics applies to every sentient being in so far as life, liberty, and property are concerned, then it is likely that I agree - but otherwise probably not.

Is there any kind of atrocity that could get you to change your mind?

I agree with dwilkins opinion on non-involvement. I don't think the magnitude of an atrocity would change my mind. The only means any ruler has at his disposal to implement his will (e.g. overthrowing Assad) is expropriation of his own citizens through threats of violence against them if they refuse to yield. My opinion would be that it is wrong to compel a person to support a war effort through any means (e.g. financial support via taxation or conscription). If, however, some person wishes to travel to Syria and purchase weapons, all at his own personal expense, I would not see it as my role to prevent him from doing so.

What would your answer be to these questions?

[dwilkins]

I thought this was interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkc2ZtPv ... e=youtu.be

And, as far as I can tell Putin's comments about equality had to do with what has become a perverse concept in which American "exceptionalism" turns into the rest of the world being the untermensch that we have to save from themselves. I don't think that becoming a hyperpower was good for our country and as it is ending I am concerned that we will have no other last gasp than to start at global war (if for no other reason than to cover up the unbelievable criminality of the financial elites who run western banking). When Putin says we are equal he is saying that America is not inherently exceptional and should avoid talking down to everyone as if we are (and especially avoid talking down to a country with a few thousand nuclear weapons).

Doug