How to determine real life prophets

[darinhouston]

What I believe about scripture is what Paul said: It is inspired and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Tim 3:16). I do not believe that scripture is inerrant or infallible. These are claims that scripture does not make for itself. I do not believe that the Bible is the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God. I don't need authorities holding offices to enable me to follow Jesus. He is the only mediator between me and God that I need, along with the support, edification and sometimes correction of others with whom I am in community and who are also following Jesus.

This resonated with me at first, but then I read it more carefully -- I believe what Steve wrote earlier more accurately reflects my views. I do think some of scripture is the word of God (even if it's not technically the "Logos"). I also believe you have to define inerrancy and infallibility a bit to make such a declarative statement, but I hear what you're saying.

[Danny]

Agreed Darin, I really should have unpacked this more. I was trying not to make an already lengthy post even longer. I define inerrancy and infallibility in accordance with the Chicago Statement (http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html).

[darinhouston]

Agreed Darin, I really should have unpacked this more. I was trying not to make an already lengthy post even longer. I define inerrancy and infallibility in accordance with the Chicago Statement (http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.html).

I've been exchanging some emails with some brothers and have just this problem -- they want me to keep a point to 50 words, and it's just not possible without being misconstrued.

[Paidion]

I’m always skeptical whenever someone says this prophecy didn’t happen. I’m not sure how one would verify that claim. Just because no one wrote it down doesn’t mean it didn’t happen and lots of archeological finds that have proven the biblical authors to be correct.

Hi, Murf. Are you skeptical even if those "someones" are princes and people of Israel who, by their words that the prophecy was not fulfilled because the LORD was entreated, persuaded the priests and prophets of Israel not to put Jeremiah to death?

Then the princes and all the people said to the priests and the prophets, "This man does not deserve the sentence of death, for he has spoken to us in the name of the LORD our God."
And certain of the elders of the land arose and spoke to all the assembled people, saying, "Micah of Moresheth prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and said to all the people of Judah: ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts, Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.’

Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him to death? Did he not fear the LORD and entreat the favor of the LORD, and did not the LORD repent of the evil which he had pronounced against them? But we are about to bring great evil upon ourselves." Jeremiah 26:16-19 RSV

As far as Jonah is concerned I’m open to several options.
1) Jonah could be a false prophet. He didn’t have the best of attitudes and nowhere in Jonah does it say what God told him to say. It just records what he did say. So maybe God told him they had 40 days unless…
2) Your assumption about the prophecy being unconditional could be wrong. Many Christians still believe the Jews have an unconditional right to occupy Palestine.
3) Perhaps “overthrown” doesn’t mean the city will be destroyed but that the citizens evil ways will be overthrown.

But you are not open to a 4th option? That the future cannot be known, and that prophecies come from what the LORD intends to do, and are related to what He knows of the thoughts and intents of the heart? And that it is possible, because of free will, for man to change his thoughts and intents, so that the Lord will also change His mind concerning what He intended to do?

Both Micah's prophecy, and Jonah's prophecy did not come true --- and in both cases, the LORD repented (changed His mind) about what He intended to do! Why did He change His mind? Because, in the case of Jonah's prophecy, the Ninevites repented, contrary to what the Lord had perceived in their minds and hearts. And in the case of Micah's prophecy, Hezekiah entreated the favour of the LORD.

The fact that these prophecies did not come true does not imply that Jonah and Micah were false prophets. That fact only demonstrates that God may change His mind about what He intended to do, in response to man's repentance (or in some cases, because of man's rebellion).

[Jill]

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[Danny]

Foretelling the future is a very small part of prophecy. Prophecy is God speaking to His people. Sometimes it is encouragement, sometimes it is corrective, sometimes it is warning. In the instance of warning, sometimes God will reveal something that is going to occur. An example is Agabus' prophecy in Acts of an impending famine. The Old Testament prophets were typically issuing corrective prophecies that went along the lines of; "You are screwing up big-time (for example by allowing injustices to occur), if you don't change your behavior, this is what is going to happen..." In these cases the future events foretold were conditional upon how the Israelites responded to the prophesy.

[Jill]

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[Danny]

Two other spiritual gifts that are akin to prophecy are "word of knowledge" and "word of wisdom". See 1 Corinthians 12:8. In the example I gave from the other night when we met with a woman to help her hear from God about a career decision, we were functioning in "words of knowledge" and "words of wisdom"; that is, God was giving us insights into the situation--both what was currently happening and what she needed to do. Perhaps one difference is that prophecy tends to be directed towards a group, whereas "word of knowledge/wisdom" tends to be directed towards an individual.

Regarding the Book of Revelation, I don't consider it prophetic at all in the sense of predicting the future. Contrary to how it has often been misunderstood, Revelation was not written to describe future events. It was intentionally written using a writing style known as apocryphal, which uses symbolic language to describe events that were contemporaneous to when it was written. The Book of Revelation is very prophetic, however, in the sense of God speaking to the church words of guidance, encouragement, correction and warning.