Introduction

[MessianicJew]

Rickc wrote:


"I'm not Jewish (by birth/family) but am extremely interested in Second Temple Judaism, Intertestamental Jewish literature, the "NT context and world Jesus lived in." I have some (but limited) knowledge of Rabbinic Judaism (Mishnah, Talmud, etc.). 'Completely fascinated with anything that can illumine my understanding of the Christian Bible! I'll be posting some video links soon on these themes."

I'm not familar with these things. Growing up as a Reform Jew, there was not alot of in-depth study of the Torah, or the Temple etc. Suffice it to say, The way I study, I use blueletterbible.org, and before I read Y'shua's Word I ask God to give me wisdom and insight as I study. Also there are alot of resources right here on this web site. Sometimes I think we can "over-educate" ourselves. Another way to gain understanding of our Christian Bible is to read complementry books of the Old Testament and New Testament, such as Daniel and Ezekiel, and Revelations, or Leviticus and Hebrews. I pray that this helps RickC.

[steve7150]

I'm not Jewish (by birth/family) but am extremely interested in Second Temple Judaism, Intertestamental Jewish literature, the "NT context and world Jesus lived in." I have some (but limited) knowledge of Rabbinic Judaism (Mishnah, Talmud, etc.). 'Completely fascinated with anything that can illumine my understanding of the Christian Bible! I'll be posting some video links soon on these themes."





Hi Rick,
I'm no expert either but i do know a lot of hassidic jews and if you ever want me to ask them anything feel free, plus i have a Tanach by Stone which has a Rabbinical Judaism slant to it. Plus Emmet may be helpful also.

[kaufmannphillips]

steve7150 wrote:
Plus Emmet may be helpful also.

Thank you for the reference, Steve.

I may interpret some evidence differently than most Christians would, but there's a chance I could offer some advice as to where to examine evidence for oneself.

[kaufmannphillips]

steve7150 wrote:

i was born jewish, got barmitzvahed and then forgot about God.

And MessianicJew wrote:

Rickc wrote:


"I'm not Jewish (by birth/family) but am extremely interested in Second Temple Judaism, Intertestamental Jewish literature, the "NT context and world Jesus lived in." I have some (but limited) knowledge of Rabbinic Judaism (Mishnah, Talmud, etc.). 'Completely fascinated with anything that can illumine my understanding of the Christian Bible! I'll be posting some video links soon on these themes."

I'm not familar with these things. Growing up as a Reform Jew, there was not alot of in-depth study of the Torah, or the Temple etc.

In your experience, would you guys say these sorts of background are typical for Jewish converts to MJ? That is, are most converts from a liberal Jewish background, and/or not seriously active in their previous Jewish faith, and/or not seriously literate in (non-Messianic) Judaism?

[MessianicJew]

I don't know about other Converts to Jesus, but I would say for me, it was a searching for something to complete my Faith. I thought "There must be something more to being Jewish", than where I was in my Faith walk. I believed in God, but, He seemed so far from me. I longed to be close to God. The longing got more intense when I joined The Army in 1987, because I was at Ft Jackson, South Carolina, for Basic training and AIT (Advanced individual training). Becoming a soldier is, needless to say, a very stressful environment. When I finished my training as I said, I was Stationed at Ft Ord, Ca, and all the years, of searching, from High School, through Adulthood came to a head when I got saved at a Jewish-Christian Fellowship in Pacific Grove, CA January, 19,1988.

[steve7150]

In late 2001 my wife called me from the mall and she and my daughter found this 4LB toy poodle in the pet store and she was just to cute not to buy. I said fine as long as our daughter walked this dog.
Needless to say after a few weeks i was walking her at night and looking up to the stars i knew in a moment God made everything. So i asked God the purpose of my life because everything did'nt make sense. You work hard have kids get old and die and then your kids get old and die, what was the point?
A few weeks later my wife's friend came for a visit and when the three of us where alone , she explained the bible story to us including Jesus and it made sense to me. She suggested i read "Jewish Objections to Jesus" by Michael Brown which i did and in about 9 months on April 30, 2002 i said the sinners prayer and the Holy Spirit came into me as i was driving. It was so strong i almost pulled over and stopped but i just drove home real slow.

[kaufmannphillips]

MessianicJew wrote:
I'm not familar with [Second Temple Judaism, Intertestamental Jewish literature, Rabbinic Judaism (Mishnah, Talmud, etc.)]. Growing up as a Reform Jew, there was not alot of in-depth study of the Torah, or the Temple etc.

{and}

I don't know about other Converts to Jesus, but I would say for me, it was a searching for something to complete my Faith. I thought "There must be something more to being Jewish", than where I was in my Faith walk.

I suppose there is "something more to being Jewish" than what you have indicated about your upbringing. It seems that your Reform context was limited in its studies of Jewish heritage, and I will speculate that it also gave little attention to the practice of mitzvot. But when one neglects these studies and practices, one is neglecting an immense swath of Jewish religious inheritance.

So I will draw a parallel between your narrative and that of a person who grew up in a bourgeois church, but later on decided to follow Paramahansa Yogananda. Such a person may have felt that their Christian experience was incomplete; yet rather than mining the broader wealth of Christianity, they turned to something that claimed continuity with their faith, but fundamentally was something else.

[kaufmannphillips]

steve7150 wrote:
So i asked God the purpose of my life because everything did'nt make sense. You work hard have kids get old and die and then your kids get old and die, what was the point?

Of course, Christianity does not have a monopoly on answers to this sort of question. Did you look to Judaism, to see what it has to say?

steve7150 wrote:
A few weeks later my wife's friend came for a visit and when the three of us where alone , she explained the bible story to us including Jesus and it made sense to me. She suggested i read "Jewish Objections to Jesus" by Michael Brown which i did and in about 9 months on April 30, 2002 i said the sinners prayer...

During this same period, did you discuss with devoted Jews and/or read apologetics by Jewish sources? Did you explore reintegrating with a Jewish religious community?

Also, if I may inquire, what was your wife's religious background, prior to this?

steve7150 wrote:
...on April 30, 2002 i said the sinners prayer and the Holy Spirit came into me as i was driving. It was so strong i almost pulled over and stopped but i just drove home real slow.

One might imagine how this moment could have been very moving for you, if you had been transitioning from having no mind for G-d to seeking relationship with him. Why do you consider what you experienced to have been an incoming of the holy spirit?

[steve7150]

Of course, Christianity does not have a monopoly on answers to this sort of question. Did you look to Judaism, to see what it has to say?









Judaism is a faith for jews who constitute less then 1% of humanity and that still leaves 99+% of humanity, twisting in the wind, knowing little if anything about God. Either Jesus is what the NT calls him "the Savior of the World" or God has not spoken to his highest creation. As i said before, i believe Jesus.
I believe Jesus does have a monopoly on answers concerning God and if that troubles you Emmet ,i'm sorry about that but we each have to follow what we think is truth.

[kaufmannphillips]

steve7150 wrote:
Judaism is a faith for jews who constitute less then 1% of humanity and that still leaves 99+% of humanity, twisting in the wind, knowing little if anything about God.

You have repaired to this kind of argument before:

steve7150 wrote:
Another reason i believe the NT Emmet, is that if only the Torah is true or only the OT is true that would mean God only spoke to the jews , and simply left out the gentiles who constitute 99.7 % of the population of the world. Does'nt add up to me amigo.

kaufmannphillips wrote:
You are projecting a Christian perspective onto non-Christian sources. Neither the Torah nor the broader OT claims to be the exclusive revelation of G-d.

Other people may pursue relationships with G-d in other ways. And though the Torah is primarily focused on a particular community of people, other people(s) can profit from the Torah and/or interface with the community that practices it.

But your argument actually redounds to your disfavor, Steve. If the OT was an exclusivistic model, then you have a God who potters around with “[0.3%] of the population of the world” for centuries before getting around to everybody else. And then, once he inaugurates his international program for redemption, this God leaves it in the hands of clodhoppers who barely spread it around a mere corner of the world for fifteen centuries. Is this a model of worldwide efficacy, chaveri?

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steve7150 wrote:
Either Jesus is what the NT calls him "the Savior of the World" or God has not spoken to his highest creation.

Easily claimed; hardly demonstrated.

There are many persons besides Christians who have claimed to have heard G-d. If Jesus is not "the Savior of the World," how would it necessarily follow that every last one of those persons was/is wrong?

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The above being said - I note that you did not give straight answers to the questions I posed.