Searching, Striving, Suffering

[ace]

Hello all,

I initially joined this forum, being familiar with Steve's ministry, with the intent of asking things that might not always normally be covered; personal struggles and uncertainties. And hopefully contributing in a positive manner and helping others as well.

However, I just got finished listening to Steve's True & False Assurance lecture. And I'm not sure if I make the grade, based on the way Steve laid things out. I feel that I've known the Lord my entire life in a very personal way, free of religion or playing church. There are many occasions where I have sought Him out, at times when I wasn't attending a church or facing some crisis. But the I've gone through many dry spells too. I've always lead a very sheltered and solitary lifestyle by nature, so there's no reprobate friends, women, drugs, booze etc. lifestyle for me to backslide into. I just get lost in my own little world of watching TV, reading pulp and the like, forgetting that I owe God my service instead of being a couch potato.

I'm just not too sure of how I stack up when it comes to obeying His commands.
Or confessing him in the way I conduct myself around others.
Or how much I love anyone.

These are all supposed to be natural attributes of salvation, that I'm not too sure of possessing, the way Steve laid them out. Although I’ve always felt conviction regarding them all, ESPECIALLY now.
Then again without the Lord, maybe I'd be a thousand times worse with these than I am.
It's hard to know. Like the guy in It's A Wonderful Life wasn't able to evaluate himself, until shown the alternative.
I know since I've had these issues brought to my attention so blatantly, I desire to possess them. And I feel relieved at the idea of this. Not like it's something i have to make happen as much as, why haven't I seen it this way this clearly all along?
But could this be I'll try doing what I'm supposed to do, since it's been laid down in no uncertain terms, rather than it actually being genuine fruits of genuine Salvation?

[steve7150]

I'm just not too sure of how I stack up when it comes to obeying His commands.
Or confessing him in the way I conduct myself around others.
Or how much I love anyone.


Hi Ace,

What works for me is everyday i thank God for his grace and i confess out loud i have received it and it helps me focus on how blessed i really am and helps me focus on whom the grace came from. This helps me feel loved and makes it possible for me to love others without straining myself so maybe it would help you.
When you feel loved by God all the other things come much easier and you feel more motivated to follow his commands. Lastly IMHO his grace (unearned favor) covers everything in our life, and believing you have it should be natural because in John 1 it says through Jesus came grace and truth.

[selah]

Hello all,

...I'm just not too sure of how I stack up when it comes to obeying His commands.
Or confessing him in the way I conduct myself around others.
Or how much I love anyone.

These are all supposed to be natural attributes of salvation, that I'm not too sure of possessing, the way Steve laid them out. Although I’ve always felt conviction regarding them all, ESPECIALLY now.
Then again without the Lord, maybe I'd be a thousand times worse with these than I am.
It's hard to know. Like the guy in It's A Wonderful Life wasn't able to evaluate himself, until shown the alternative.
I know since I've had these issues brought to my attention so blatantly, I desire to possess them. And I feel relieved at the idea of this. Not like it's something i have to make happen as much as, why haven't I seen it this way this clearly all along?
But could this be I'll try doing what I'm supposed to do, since it's been laid down in no uncertain terms, rather than it actually being genuine fruits of genuine Salvation?

Hi Brother,

Reading your post reminds me of Peter--introspectively.

There were times when Peter questioned himself, like in the boat when Jesus performed a miracle, but the biggest "conviction" he suffered through was after he realized he had denied Jesus three times. He must have struggled terribly with himself and deeply searched his heart. When he repented, he was convicted to follow Jesus faithfully. (Even more determined than before?) Jesus must have known Peter meant it because He sent him to "feed my sheep." The way I think of it, every fruit thereafter that Peter produced was genuine due to his growing love for Jesus and his submission to obey Jesus. I see parallels, do you?

Steve7150 wrote:

When you feel loved by God all the other things come much easier and you feel more motivated to follow his commands.

This is so IMPORTANT! I believe this too!

Peter must have realized Jesus' love for him for when He was so kind to Peter, even when he had denied Him. Then Peter realized the love Jesus had for him to motivate Him to bear the cross for Peter. Maybe Ian, maybe you are just now realizing how much Jesus loves you! (I want to know His love more too.)
Blessings!
Selah*

[steve7150]

but the biggest "conviction" he suffered through was after he realized he had denied Jesus three times.





Everyone knows the real reason Peter denied Jesus three times. Jesus healed Peter's mother in law.
Just kidding

[selah]

but the biggest "conviction" he suffered through was after he realized he had denied Jesus three times.





Everyone knows the real reason Peter denied Jesus three times. Jesus healed Peter's mother in law.
Just kidding

Oh that is SO funny! LOL

[ace]

Superstitions thoughts regarding my Lord and my relationship with him is a weapon that's been used before. And I think I've reached the "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice (times ten) shame on me" point in my walk. And it's in this is where I start actually feeling the Lord's anger kindling against me. God wanting to slap me upside the head, for being so gullible.
As Steve told me on the show today, it's not the performance, but the sincere desire to perform better, out of love, that counts.

Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Romans 7:24

When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?" And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:25-26

God bless

[Erik]

Dear ace,

I believe that we are responsible for the light we are given. Light means the truths and revelations presented to us, supernaturally or not, that we truly grasped in the moment, and responded to or rejected. Throughout the Bible there is a theme of men's sin and waywardness not being held to their detriment until it was revealed to them.

It seems to me that by listening to Steve's lectures, you were given some light. And you truly grasped them—you felt a spiritual sting, a conviction that made you come and post here to ask about it.

My suggestion is that you now have a choice to make about this light you have been given. Starting small, every day begin to change your life toward the thing that you think Jesus would have for you. As you hinted, it is a heart issue above all else. But your heart is connected to your body, and leads your body. So if Jesus is calling to your heart, and you love him, then you will respond, and will begin to look for ways in fact and in life to follow him more closely. Listening to Steve's lectures is a great start!

All of us are on the installment plan. No one becomes a Christ-follower and then one second later knows all theological truth and performs all good deeds and has wholly renounced all worldly ways. A man of the most heinously evil kind, after coming to Christ, may be worlds of progress from where he was just by having stopped murdering and raping--but perhaps he still is swearing and beating people up and sleeping around (and yet, a true Christian--horror!). But you can be sure that if his love for Christ is real, those things will pass before long, too. But I think that God works in areas at a time and that we grasp truth in pieces. I think we are accountable to the areas which God is convicting us, and we aren't accountable in the areas that he isn't working on, yet.

If you look at your life and are discontent with what you see, and you worry that somehow it doesn't make the grade, then breathe a sigh of relief--because this is a sign that you care what your master thinks. But don't be relieved for too long! Take joy in the new knowledge and respond to him.

I honestly believe that the life of a properly growing Christian is one of constant discovery of the ways in which one falls short. In time, instead of this causing a perpetual dreadful feeling of constant inadequacy, one can come to recognize this as Christ's continuous improvement program, and think about it a little differently. See, it is when you no longer care about measuring up that you are most in danger! So continue to care and suspect that perhaps you don't "make the grade", but do it very carefully, now: this isn't about salvation or perfection (since any belief that you can make the grade by your power puts you straight into legalism and directly away from relationship with Christ) but about growth. LOVE him, with all your might. CARE about what he cares about. LISTEN to his call, and LOOK for him wherever he may be and wherever he is leading you, then FOLLOW! RUN! As fast as you know how. Limp, if you must. Crawl if you cannot rise. But go the way he leads you and with this dependence on him and trust that he is in fact leading you, you can have full assurance that you are in him, and he is in you. Thus he will continue to do his work in you and your life will become different.

So I challenge you to do something to respond to the call you've heard in your heart. Step out in faith, but don't go too big, too fast (usually a sign of trying to do it on your own). Maybe give more money. Visit more people who are hurting. Find some shut-in neighbors and offer to take them shopping or do fix-it repairs. Find a church that needs your talents. Or one that fills your needs. Pray more. Sing more (I do this instead of praying, because I'm so easily distracted during prayer.) Whatever might be in your heart as possible work you can do for God, is probably good enough for him. When you're ready for more, you'll know.

I sincerely hope that my words do not come across as condescending or one-up in any way. I know my post is long, and I have a habit of speaking too lengthily, so please forgive me if so. I just get passionate! Know that I am right with you on being quite discontent with the quality of my own service to Christ. I stink, big time! Yet I also take comfort that I care deeply that I stink! And I pray for Christ to lead me into his work, and to change me, and to empower me, and all that wonderful good stuff that can only come from being in relationship with him. So I hope my words don't sound like I've got it made, but are as much a call to me to do it as any call to you.

With love,

Erik

[Jepne]

Ace: I just get lost in my own little world of watching TV, reading pulp and the like, forgetting that I owe God my service instead of being a couch potato.

I'm just not too sure of how I stack up when it comes to obeying His commands.
Or confessing him in the way I conduct myself around others.
Or how much I love anyone.

But could this be I'll try doing what I'm supposed to do, since it's been laid down in no uncertain terms, rather than it actually being genuine fruits of genuine Salvation?

I sure appreciate your thoughts.

If my service to God is going to be unself-conscious, then I have to look away from my life and my deeds and let it be His life and His deeds living through me; let Him be the judge.

I want to be thankful toward Him; I want to do whatever would bring Him glory, but I must just be what I am and let Him steer the ship. I have to resist the temptation to the flesh when I hear exhortations to minister and serve God. I take seriously the words in Acts that we are to be witnesses. Just be the child of God that you are and you will bear fruit. A tree does not think about the fruit it is bearing. You water it and give it the right conditions and the fruit just comes naturally.

Once I prayed for God to make me like Elijah – stripped down and ready to go at His word. A very few years later, my life turned upside down. A couple years ago, I took note that there seemed to be no Life in our lives. I was way too interested in earthly things that were interesting, but not really edifying. I had prayed to know what it was to enter into the fellowship of Jesus’ sufferings. Within a few months, some events took place that had us reeling and searching the scriptures as though our lives depended on it. Just in the midst of writing this, a phone call came about even more lies and strife – and I have an even deeper sense of His fellowship as these words come onto the page.

He gives us grace for the time we need it. When so many of our brothers and sisters all over the world hurt, we should know it and feel it. When pain comes to my life personally, it is easier to expand my heartstrings to others. But we cannot hammer the nails into our own hands.

Now, though we feel great pain often, we have the Life of the Spirit in abundance; our hearts have been touched more than ever for others; we have new understanding of why we are to pray for our enemies, and we have no more superficial relationships. Each new challenge is a lesson in trusting God. We are blessed!

Yes, be glad that you even care. Something else Erik said reminded me of an elder who once told us that if you feel you are in a dry place with the Lord, go back to your last disobedience and do what you need to make it right. Yes, as we love one another, the world will know that He loves them and came for them. . .

Neat, eh. . . I can imagine the exchange between Peter and Jesus on the shore that morning. . . .
Bless you.