Calvin's commentary on Eph 2:1

[steve7150]

So how is this resolved? Does God give everyone this new birth, and then we get to decide whether or not to love and follow him?

For if we remain dead in our trespasses and sins, without resurrection to life, we will in fact remain dead.











I think the unsaved have the ability to repent or else John the Baptist was confused. After repentance the unsaved man is capable of receiving the Holy Spirit, at least in my understanding.

[robbyyoung]

I think the unsaved have the ability to repent or else John the Baptist was confused. After repentance the unsaved man is capable of receiving the Holy Spirit, at least in my understanding.

Hi Steve,

John 3:8 gives us the method by which the new birth takes place, "By Hearing" and John the Baptist was "The Voice" preparing the way.

John's ministry in no way conflicts, or is confusing with the method of "How" we receive the new birth. Does God initiate the action for all to hear or not is still argued? Methods of how we come to Hear, to experience the new birth is not the question. It's who brings us to life in order to respond, John 3:3-9 is a fascinating revelation.

God Bless!

[steve7150]

It's who brings us to life in order to respond, John 3:3-9 is a fascinating revelation.












If God initiates the process then how could He hold the unbeliever responsible for not accepting Christ?

[robbyyoung]

If God initiates the process then how could He hold the unbeliever responsible for not accepting Christ?

That's the "Million Dollar Question". Nicodemus asked how could these thing be??? And worse yet, Jesus said he should know, being a teacher. And let's not forget the same question YOU JUST ASKED concerning fairness was addressed in scripture, "How could he (God) hold the unbeliever responsible for not accepting Christ?" by Paul in Romans 9:17-21

"For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"

Nicodemus should have known the scriptures stating this:

Ezekiel 36:22-32

"Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went."

In the following verses you will see that it is God who initiates all actions in spite of Israel's "Own Will":

I will take you from among the heathen
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean
A new heart also will I give you
a new spirit will I put within you
I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh
I will give you an heart of flesh
I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes
I will be your God
I will also save you from all your uncleannesses
Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you

I will admit to not having all the answers concerning this, but I also cannot deny what is plainly stated corncerning the issue.

God Bless!

[steve7150]

I will admit to not having all the answers concerning this, but I also cannot deny what is plainly stated corncerning the issue.





Robby,

The verses you gave do plainly state something but the question in my mind is, does the fact that God sometimes initiates processes mean that he always initiates processes?
I think if you believe man is responsible for his decisions and actions then to be consistent you would have to accept the premise that God allows enough so called freewill to man to make it just for man to be responsible.

[robbyyoung]

Robby,

The verses you gave do plainly state something but the question in my mind is, does the fact that God sometimes initiates processes mean that he always initiates processes?
I think if you believe man is responsible for his decisions and actions then to be consistent you would have to accept the premise that God allows enough so called freewill to man to make it just for man to be responsible.

Hi Steve,

Man is responsible and will NEVER seek after God on his own. That's our miserable condition and could care less about the things pertaining to a Holy God.

I think a tremendous effort is being applied in our day concerning this issue to make God conform to our idea of fairness. God's statements are bold without any misunderstandings to the reader. Jesus said, "MARVEL NOT" and except the fact that you MUST be born again. So we say, ad nauseam, well God is not fair and Romans 9 stands firm and doesn't move one inch.

In the end we have not one scripture that puts God at our Mercy or Allows us to steal His Glory, the work is all His, 100%.

As a matter of fact, unbelievers actually feel sorry for us! It's only by His extreme mercy that goodness is found here on earth, whether saved or not, His extreme mercy is upon all. But make no mistake concerning the passages the outline the truth of matter. It may be a hard pill to swallow, but swallow we must!

God Bless!

[steve7150]

So we say, ad nauseam, well God is not fair and Romans 9 stands firm and doesn't move one inch.

In the end we have not one scripture that puts God at our Mercy or Allows us to steal His Glory, the work is all His, 100%.







Robby,
Rom 9 and the episode of God hardening Pharoah's heart are not even about salvation. So to project instances like these over every single decision that man makes is overkill IMHO.
Yes God is sovereign but within his sovereignty if he makes man responsible for seeking him or not, then he must make man capable of seeking him or not.
The reason is because of God's own standard of justice. It's not about fairness, it's about justice. At least that's how i understand it my friend.

[robbyyoung]

Robby,
Rom 9 and the episode of God hardening Pharoah's heart are not even about salvation. So to project instances like these over every single decision that man makes is overkill IMHO.
Yes God is sovereign but within his sovereignty if he makes man responsible for seeking him or not, then he must make man capable of seeking him or not.
The reason is because of God's own standard of justice. It's not about fairness, it's about justice. At least that's how i understand it my friend.

Hi Steve,

As always, thanks for the conversation. But Romans 9 has everything to do with salvation. I'm sorry, but I really fail to see how you can reach that conclusion. But what I do see, very clearly, is the truth of God's word; Is there unrighteousness with God? Romans 9:11-13 reads:

"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

Now how could anyone misunderstand this truth? The text itself purposefully exhorts the one who disagrees with the conclusion.

I don't see why this is such a difficult concept to grasp. God quickens us, because we are dead and cannot respond to the call of salvation. Scripture insist that He doesn't quicken every human being. So the only other question that remains is, once we are made alive, do we now have the free will to reject Christ and die in our sins being in a worse state than those who have never believed. Luke 12:41-48, 2 Peter 2:21

What do you think brother?

God bless!

[Paidion]

2) There is a form of "free will" that is "compatible" with the concept of meticulous providence. This has never been clearly explained to me.

This second definition of "compatible" is closer to that in philosophical circles whose "compabitilism" is not contrary to "determinism".

Compatibilists among philosophers are sometimes called "soft determinists" as opposed to "hard determinists" who take a stronger stance in denying free will.
But both "soft" and "hard" determinists are nevertheless determinists. All events, including mental events" have been determined by prior causes.

"Free will" is understood by compatibilists as man's "choices" having been made without external constraints. But, notwithstanding, compatibilists believe that those "choices" have been determined by prior causes.

However believers in libertarian free will, understand "free will" quite differently. They believe that a person, once having made a choice, COULD HAVE chosen otherwise.
Both shades of determinism deny this.

[steve7150]

As always, thanks for the conversation. But Romans 9 has everything to do with salvation. I'm sorry, but I really fail to see how you can reach that conclusion. But what I do see, very clearly, is the truth of God's word; Is there unrighteousness with God? Romans 9:11-13 reads:

"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."





Robby,
It's about the nation of Jacob and the nation of Esau and about the "purpose of God" , there is no mention of individual people or salvation. It's the purposes of God through the nation of Israel.