Are all past, present and future sins forgiven............

[Guest]

Are all past, present and future sins forgiven at initial salvation? Hello all. Someone asked this question. I will ask a question myself.

Seeing that repentance includes the confessing of sin and the turning from said sin and toward God, how is in different pre-salvation and post salvation? What I think: I would say that pre-salvation involves repentance toward salvation but post salvation it is repentance toward purity. Is this a right view? I love correction so correct me if I'm wrong and point me in the right direction.

The scriptures below was what I was gonna post to try and answer the person question but that I felt convicted by the Holy Spirit that I was not qualified enough to answer. That is why I here to ask those more knowledgeable that I for help.

Here Goes:

Romans 3:21-26
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

It was seem that we are redeemed once we place faith in Jesus Christ. Once faith is placed in Christ we are given the righteousness of God. We are then justified through the redemption which means forgiveness of sins. But does that mean all sin, including sin we have not committed yet or even repented of yet? Or is the redemption actualize for us once we place our faith in Christ? I know that Christ died for everyone that has lived and that will live. But does that mean all are forgiven even if they have not placed faith in Christ? How does this affect my initial question: Seeing that repentance includes the confessing of sin and the turning from said sin and toward God, how is in different pre-salvation and post salvation?

Ephesians 1:3-8
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding.

This here seems to maybe answer some questions. In Christ we have the forgiveness of sins. I would assume that if you are not In Christ there is no forgiveness of sins. Is that right?

Colossians 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father. 3 We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints; 5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel 6 which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth; 7 just as you learned it from Epaphras, our beloved fellow bond-servant, who is a faithful servant of Christ on our behalf, 8 and he also informed us of your love in the Spirit. 9 For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light. 13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Again this seems to imply being In Christ.

1 John 2:1-3
1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

This clearly says at least to me that He atoned for the sin of the whole world. But does that mean all are forgiven or does that mean each individual is forgiven by faith in Jesus Christ?

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Not sure what I can say about this verse it seems clear enough to me.

Summary I guess.

Propitiation means atoning sacrifice. Looking back in the OT you will see that the scapegoat wasn't for some of the sins of the people but all the sins of the people. But the people year after year had to send the scapegoat out into the wilderness. But Christ is the sacrifice for the sins of all people for all times. However the righteousness of God that comes through faith in Jesus Christ isn't applied to a person unless that person places faith in Jesus Christ. The person is redeemed, whereby the sins of that person are forgiven and that person is declared justified. Of course this person has to repent in order to be forgiven. As long as a person is in Christ they are forgiven. Now repentance isn't asking for forgiveness. We repent in order to be forgiven. Even though we are forgiven through the atonement, we are still called to repent of the sins we commit daily.

It could be said like this. We are positionally forgiven, but we need to repent to actualize that forgiveness.

I agree that it would be nonsense to say that we are forgiven before we are even born. The forgiveness is applied once one becomes born again. I think the way it works is that all the sins that we commit up until the point of salvation are forgiven. The sins we commit from that day forward are forgiven but we have to repent in order to actualize that forgiveness. Saying that however is not saying that if for example you lie to someone and die 5 minutes later without having repented that means you go to hell. The Blood covers all sin.

Now as far as repentance goes I don't think God expects us to list the sins and repent. If we remember each and every sin we committed in a particular day I guess a person could do that. However most of use don't remember or realized each individual sin of that day. What God wants us to do is to be aware of what we are doing and repent right away or otherwise pray for Him to point out areas we need to repent of.

Forgiveness is extended to all people but without placing faith in Jesus Christ in can't be applied.

Please show me the errors if there are in fact any and point me in the right direction.

[Guest]

Hi Richad,

There are good and holy men who differ from one another in how they understand this particular subject.

On one view, Christians never need to confess sin or repent again after conversion, because all of their past, present and future sins were forgiven (in advance) at the cross, 2000 years ago. They argue that, when Christ died, all of our sins (including those which are now past) were still future sins. Therefore (they say) He died for all future sins, providing you with forgiveness in advance of your sinful actions. Thus, you needn't confess or repent for forgiveness of recent sins, but simply rejoice that they have been blotted out.

Those who take this view have no reasonable explanation of 1 John 1:9 (though one broadcaster, known to me, who holds this view, spends a great deal of time trying to harmonize this contrary verse with his thesis). Also, it is a historic fact that revivals have always been characterized by Christians confessing their sins, and revival may even be precipitated by such confession. If confession of sin is indeed a necessary obligation of Christians, and if we teach that it is not necessary, we will be working against God and may hinder His efforts to bring revival.

Another view holds that we must repent of each sin that we commit in order to maintain our salvation. On this view, even though Christ died for all sins, past, present and future, 2000 years ago, we did not personally benefit from any of this until the point in time when we repented of all past sins at our conversion. Of course, He died for our future sins as well, and we can be forgiven of them all on the basis of that same sacrifice, but we must continue to repent in order to appropriate current forgiveness each time we find that we have sinned.

This view takes seriously 1 John 1:9, but it may not give adequate consideration to the status of a child of God, as opposed to an unbeliever. We know that the unbeliever is at enmity with God, and is under the wrath of God. He needs to repent in order to avoid ultimate condemnation. Is a believer, who falls into sin, also under God's wrath? Is he in the same position as an unbeliver, needing to be saved again each time he falls short of the glory of God?

If this is the case, then salvation seems to be only a series of pardons, applied to the most recent case of sin and confession. There is little recognition of the changed status of the child of God after regeneration. He is essentially of the same status as the unbeliever, except for the fact that he regularly repents.

Unlike those of the first view, I believe in the necessity of confession, and I also believe in the possibility of apostasy and loss of status as a child of God. But unlike the second view, I do not believe that we confess our sins in order to stay saved. Rather, we are God's children from the point of regeneration until death (unless we apostasize).

What, then, is the purpose of confession and repentance in the life of the believer? I believe there are two aspects to the answer to this question.

First, being a Christian is not just about going to heaven and avoiding hell. Our own selfish tendencies might incline us to focus on this ultimate benefit, to the neglect of the essence of salvation itself—i.e., being in relationship with God.

The reason we go to heaven is because we are given eternal life. The reason we are given eternal life is that we are "in His Son" (1 John 5:11) or "in Christ." The point of being "in Christ" is that we needed to be reconciled, or put back in a right relationship with God. Therefore, the essence of salvation is not avoidance of hell, but being in a reconciled relationship with God, as a child with a father.

In the relationship of a child and a father, or of any other two persons, confession plays a dual role: it removes offenses, and it demonstrates love (in the form of grief over having offended another).

If a child disappoints or disobeys his father, he is not automatically thrust from the home. If the offense remains unrepented of, the father may not quickly forgive or pardon the offense (in the sense that the child may continue to experience discipline or the suspension of certain normal privileges). Nonetheless, the child is not disowned.

If the child cares about the relationship, he will repent, or apologize to the father, for the wrongdoing, so that the offense can be put behind them and normal fellowship can continue unhindered.

The same is true in relationships between married couples or committed friends. The relationship can survive an offense, but fellowship and trust are damaged by the betrayal. If you do not wish to repent for offenses you have committed against your spouse, against your parent or against your friend, then you demonstrate that you have little love for that person or concern for the relationship.

One who is not broken over sin gives little evidence of being a child of God. That person may be interested in going to heaven, but he does not care much for God Himself, and is probably not regenerated. If I am correct in saying this, then confession of sin in the life of a believer is more of a proof of salvation than its cause. It shows that one has a heart for God, has a sensitivity about offending Him, and values reconciliation and renewed fellowship with Him.

Unconfessed sin breaks fellowship with God, and may cut off the blessings of answered prayer (Ps.66:18/1 Pet.3:7). It may even bring painful chastisement (1 Cor.11:30-32). In any case, fellowship with God is the supreme privilege of the child of God, and is the very attraction of heaven itself.

To be a Christian, and to fail to maintain open fellowship with God, is to cancel out the primary value of being a Christian at all. Unconfessed sin may be covered by the blood of Christ in terms of escaping ultimate condemnation, but sin displeases God—and if displeasing God is not the most grievous situation one can imagine, then that one may well not be saved at all. There is little evidence of a regenerated or renewed heart.

I think that 1 John 1:9 must be understood in light of 1 John 1:7. Both verses speak of the Christian's ongoing forgiveness and cleansing from sin. Verse 7 makes "walking in the light" the condition for cleansing and for fellowship with God, whereas verse 9 makes "confession of sin" the condition. I assume that these two conditions are one and the same. Walking in the light means not concealing or not denying one's own sin—i.e., it means confessing sin.

Since walking is a process, not a single action, I assume that the same must be true of confession of sin, it is not done only once, but whenever necessary. Verse 7 identifies the benefit of cleansing from sin as "we [God and I] have fellowship one with another" (I know that we sometimes read this verse as if it were talking about fellowship among Christians, but the previous verse makes it clear that fellowship with God is what is under consideration).

I conclude that confession of sin is both an evidence of true conversion, and the effective means of maintaining open fellowship with God. It is thus quite a necessary part of the Christian life.

This is obviously an important question to think rightly about. I hope that this answer is correct and that it proves helpful.

[Guest]

When we understand that Christ died to deliver us from our sins, rather than to forgive us our sins, the question will not need to be asked.

When we are regenererated through repentance and baptism, we enter the door of salvation. Salvation from sin is a process that continues throughout our lives, if we continue to submit to the authority of the Son, and allow God to complete the good work that He began in us.

If we co-operate with the enabling grace of Christ which continues to deliver us from sin, of course God will not hold our past sins against us. This is a natural consequence of our working out (together with His enabling grace) this great salvation from sin, with fear and trembling. Christ did not die to make this forgiveness possible. He died to deliver us from sin itself!

Hebrews 9:26
He has appeared once for all, at the end of the age, to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness.

Yes, you quoted some verses which translate "aphiemi" as "forgiveness".
But the primary meaning of the word is "departure" or "leaving" or "forsaking". The word is used in the book of Acts concerning a ship leaving the shore. It is also used by Paul with regard to a man leaving his wife. I don't say that the word NEVER means "forgiveness", but usually it doesn't. If, in the verses you quoted, you try translating the phrase as "forsaking of sins" instead or "forgiveness of sins" you will come closer to the intent of the author.

The idea that we are forgiven, past, present, and future, and will therefore inevitibly get to heaven because we are "covered by the blood of Christ" is a great deception in our day. Many people use this concept as a license to sin.

Jesus taught that it is not those who say, "Lord, Lord" that will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but rather those who do the will of the Father who is in Heaven.

[Guest]

How interesting that this discussion is going on in three different forums on this board!

Paidion ~ I agree that it is sometimes too easy for many people get in a cycle of sin-forgiveness-sin-forgiveness-sin, but are you saying that we don't need God's forgiveness? I want God's forgiveness, is that part of the deception? Or is it selfish on my part?