Thanksgiving

[steve7150]

This is one of those rare holidays that everyone likes. Possibly begun by the Puritans and possibly having some connection to the Jewish holiday called Sukkot where they gave thanks for the fall harvest.
Nowadays it's a secular holiday but when we give thanks, who are we thanking? Is it God, or for others maybe they are thanking the universe or perhaps mother earth?
Just like everything gets commercialized, businesses created Black Friday whereas stores open up at 12AM or midnight on Friday morning and shoppers rush into these stores to get the best sales of the year. Whatever you think of this at least the day of thanksgiving was preserved as a holiday and that made it something special.
Of course the greediness of man can not be contained and now many retailers open up on Thanksgiving at 8PM to try and beat the other stores opening at midnight, and now the other stores have to follow suit. It is probably inevitable that these stores will simply stay open all day on Thanksgiving eventually which to me is sad. It's like nothing is sacred or at least special anymore, everything is geared to making another buck.

[mattrose]

Stuff like that has never really bothered me

The way I see it... if there are people who are so materialistic that they'll sacrifice thanksgiving to shop.... having stores open earlier only REVEALS that. It doesn't likely create it. I also think there are some people who actually enjoy spending time with their family in the context of shopping and... though shopping seems an awful lot like what I imagine hell to be like... who am I to favor gluttony over materialism

[Paidion]

It is interesting that second century Christians (and also Christians in part of the first century) celebrated Thanksgiving every Sunday!

They gathered together to remember Jesus and His magnificent sacrifice on their behalf. They shared a common meal in that celebration, the "love feast" (Jude 1:12) or "the Lord's supper" (1 Cor.11:20). This was followed by the taking of bread and wine, symbolic of the body and blood of Christ. This practice is called "Communion" (sharing) and was also in the second century called "the Eucharist" (which means "Thanksgiving"). While outwardly consuming ordinary unleavened bread and wine, inwardly they were feeding on Christ.

Now Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. (John 6:53)

[TheEditor]

I'll share my two cents;

I tend to agree with Steve 7150 on this one (sorry Matt). Though you may have been joking, the choice shouldn't be between gluttony and mateialism. I also like the fact that a sort-of "annual Sabbath principle" is being recognized, and I feel sorry for those workers that would much rather be at home with the family than out trying to keep their jobs. I think this dovetails a bt with Steve's lecture on the Industrial Revolution in his Church History series. It's ironic that the so-called conservatives who see the mechanized age as the greatest thing also contributed to the demise of the family structure. But that's another topic.

Either way, I still like the notion of an Annual National Sabbath. I stay home on Friday after, unless I have to leave the home for some reason. It's too nuts out there!

Regards, Brenden.

[mattrose]

I'd love it if there was a national sabbath

I'd love it if the nation was full of Christians too

But since that's not the case, I'd rather let reality be the reality

[TheEditor]

Let dreamers dream, Matt....

[steve7150]

Interestingly concerning the idea behind Black Friday is sort of ironic. On the day after the day of the year folks traditionally give thanks for what they have, on the very next day are the biggest sales of the year with stores opening on midnight so these same folks who had just given thanks, can now trample each other as they stampede into the stores to buy more stuff on sale, even though they were just thankful for what they have.

[thrombomodulin]

the idea behind Black Friday is sort of ironic.

I see nothing wrong, per se, with exchange on the day after thanksgiving (or on any day of the year). In defense of those who engage in commerce the day after thanksgiving, I think it is worth observing that the prosperity and wealth of a modern economy, for which men express thanks, cannot be possible without exchange. I see it as being consistent for men to be thankful for what they have and for them to also engage in the means which they create and obtain that wealth - namely, the "division of labor" that is made possible by voluntary exchange.

It's ironic that the so-called conservatives who see the mechanized age as the greatest thing also contributed to the demise of the family structure. But that's another topic.

The death brought about by famines, the inferior state of medical care, the difficulties and perils of travel, and many other features that were part and parcel of the time before the industrial revolution might also be considered as having their own type of detrimental impact on the family structure.

Stuff like that has never really bothered me.... having stores open earlier only REVEALS that. It doesn't likely create it

I also do not find it particularly bothersome, and would agree with Matt that a man's values are already whatever it is that they are. Those values not being particularly different on black Friday than they are on any other day of the year. God has created man in such a way that each has control over his own body: One may choose to use it to labor more or less, or to allocate the fruit of his labor one way or another. Of course, I must emphasize, that I agree that he does well to use it in such a way as to produce more and then give to someone in need, and he also does well who chooses to produce less and enjoy more leisure with his family. Who has the right to decide how much production one ought to labor to attain? Who has the right to decide what portion of a man's wealth ought to be given to the poor? I understand obedience in things are always a matter of degree, not of principle, and that each man is accountable to God alone in these areas. I am thus inclined to withhold any judgement of others in this area, especially non-Christians (I Cor 5:12).

[TheEditor]

TheEditor wrote:It's ironic that the so-called conservatives who see the mechanized age as the greatest thing also contributed to the demise of the family structure. But that's another topic.

The death brought about by famines, the inferior state of medical care, the difficulties and perils of travel, and many other features that were part and parcel of the time before the industrial revolution might also be considered as having their own type of detrimental impact on the family structure.

Yes, and I also was not addressing the detrimental effect that the Black Plague had on the family structure. So your point was?

Regards, Brenden.

[thrombomodulin]

My point was that I would identify with those who see it the other way: That the mechanized age was a benefit to the family rather, rather than as something detrimental.