Eternal Security

[john316yes]

What is your belief on Eternal Security?

Do you believe that you have to endure to the end? Although I believe this is scriptural, what I don't believe is that a Christian will fail to fulfill this command.



I listened to your debate with Tommy and observed that you don't hold to the Calvinist ideas; One of those ideas being eternal security. But it seems that your convinced you are saved from God's eternal wrath. lol. Is that true?

What confidence do you have that you will be saved?

Do you believe that God lives in you and you have been sealed with the promise Holy Spirit?

[steve]

I am saved in Christ. He is my confidence. I am in Christ and abide in Him by faith. Thus I am secure, conditioned on my faith.

But it seems that your convinced you are saved from God's eternal wrath. lol. Is that true?

I don't quite understand the "lol" in this context (I'm an older guy; bear with me). Yes, it is true.

What confidence do you have that you will be saved?

Every confidence. However, it is not strictly a "will be." It is now also.

Do you believe that God lives in you and you have been sealed with the promise Holy Spirit?

Yes.

[john316yes]

So to me there does not seem to be a disagreement...

lol meaning "Eternal" Wrath .

What is your disagreement with the P in tulip?

Or eternal security?

[Singalphile]

john316yes,

Please do me a favor. If you have time, let me know if you might read and/or respond to anyone other than Steve. It's fine, of course, either way ('tis the nature of forums), but it would be nice to know for the sake of time. I'll take the lack of a response as a "no" on both (reading and responding) unless you do respond to someone else.

Thank you!

[john316yes]

Yeah, sure I'll respond to your comments. I was just interested in Steve's comments cuz of the Radio Show. I just wanted to make sure Steve was not saying things that went against the Bible.

[Singalphile]

john316yes wrote:
Yeah, sure I'll respond to your comments. I was just interested in Steve's comments cuz of the Radio Show. ....

Oh, good! Thank you.

[steve]

What is your disagreement with the P in tulip?

Primarily that it affirms that those who are really saved will inevitably persevere. I do not think the scriptures will support the inevitability of perseverance in every case. In particular, the "P" in TULIP suggests that anyone who does not persevere was never truly saved. This cannot be supported by scripture, nor by experience. There have been many who have "believ[ed] for a while" (Luke 8:13) but later fell away. To say they never were really saved is like saying that a person who goes AWOL in the thick of battle was never really in the army. It does not follow. Nor is it scriptural.

If we are to argue that people who served God zealously and sincerely for decades before falling away were never really saved, despite bearing every evidence of salvation, then we would have to assume that there is no way for someone to know for sure that they are saved—except to persevere until death. This, of course, means that there can be no assurance of salvation until we breath our last breath. I don't believe this. I believe that we are saved (now and eternally) by faith in Christ. Those who have this faith in Christ now are saved. Those who depart from the faith in the future will no longer be saved, since a person, obviously, cannot be saved by his faith, if he has no faith.

[dwilkins]

Well said. The ex post facto nature of Perseverance of the Saints makes it impossible to have assurance.

Doug

[jeremiah]

Steve,

Lol in any context means: laughing out loud.

[steve]

Thanks, Jeremiah. I have been told that before, but I could not see its relevance to the comment in which it appeared above. John316yes has since clarified what he meant.