I found the thread where he had posted quotes from Pre-Augustinian Church Fathers.
It's here
Just wanted to link to it, for anyone's reference,
"Free Will" Taught by Fathers prior to Augustine
"Free Will" Taught by Fathers prior to Augustine
Steve and I talked about this on the radio today.
I found the thread where he had posted quotes from Pre-Augustinian Church Fathers.
It's here
Just wanted to link to it, for anyone's reference,
I found the thread where he had posted quotes from Pre-Augustinian Church Fathers.
It's here
Just wanted to link to it, for anyone's reference,
Re: "Free Will" Taught by Fathers prior to Augustine
This is funnyRickC wrote:Steve and I talked about this on the radio today.
I found the thread where he had posted quotes from Pre-Augustinian Church Fathers.
It's here
Just wanted to link to it, for anyone's reference,
I just clicked on your link and read the thread and posted a couple of posts and now I realize that I posted my thoughts elsewhere---I guess on the old thread. Anyway, I'll try to copy and paste cuz I want to thank you, RickC. ...hmmm...I don't know how to retrieve the posts without losing this post so, RickC, thank you for calling Steve today and posting this thread. I've learned a lot today! It's great.
selah*
Jesus said, "I in them and you in Me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that you have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me." John 17:23
Re: "Free Will" Taught by Fathers prior to Augustine
You're Welcome, selah!
But the real 'thanks' goes to Steve, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tatian, Origen....
(you know, all them guys)!
But the real 'thanks' goes to Steve, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tatian, Origen....
(you know, all them guys)!
Re: "Free Will" Taught by Fathers prior to Augustine
Greetings,
It is only the Western churches which debates God's free will and man's....the rest of Christianity has seen no paradox in the two. Since the very beginning Man's free will has been held as fact. Saint Morgan of Wales (aka Pelegius Britto) was in fact called before two Synods in the East, replied to all of Augustine's arguments and false statements about his positions and found "ORTHODOX." One of his Latin followers, who was condemned by a Synod in Carthage was also found pure and ordianed a Presbyter in Greece. I bet you never knew this. What is denounced as Pelegian error was never espoused by the Welsh Monk nor his followers in the Celtic Church. It was Augustine who was in error as to Anthropology, Sin, Law and Human Volition...as well as Soteriology.
Adam had free will and chose to misuse it and thus sinned...no sin nature required to sin......nor is one passed on or Adam's Guilt. Each souls that sins shall die. All have sinned, and walk in Adam's Way...which leads to death. All may have Life if they are faithful and walk in Christ's Way. God's Grace enables us to Walk in the Light, and without it we cannot continue in it. Adam proves this. As the Eastern saying goes,"God became man, so that man might become like God" sharing in His nature by the Grace of His Holy Spirit provided by the Work and Faithfulness of Christ. Many are summoned, but in the end few are selected. God foresaw and thus foreknows all who shall accept Christ and become conformed into His image, as well as all who shall reject Christ and remain conformed to Adam's Image. Two classes are foreseen and thus their ends foreknown....the Righteous Faithful who will inherit Life and the Unrighteous Unfaithful who will inherit Death. This was taught in the Torah of Moses, the Prophets, the Writings, the Gospels and the Epistles...and Revelations seals this.
So in the Eastern churches and those of us in the West who follow in their Path do not bother with arguing the point.....
The Latinate West is in bondage to Augustine, Luther and Calvin. Yes Luther holds Augustinian views too.....ever read his book, The bondage of the Will"?
evenso.....we are saved by grace not our fallible prouncouncements concerning it and it's origins.
Ken
It is only the Western churches which debates God's free will and man's....the rest of Christianity has seen no paradox in the two. Since the very beginning Man's free will has been held as fact. Saint Morgan of Wales (aka Pelegius Britto) was in fact called before two Synods in the East, replied to all of Augustine's arguments and false statements about his positions and found "ORTHODOX." One of his Latin followers, who was condemned by a Synod in Carthage was also found pure and ordianed a Presbyter in Greece. I bet you never knew this. What is denounced as Pelegian error was never espoused by the Welsh Monk nor his followers in the Celtic Church. It was Augustine who was in error as to Anthropology, Sin, Law and Human Volition...as well as Soteriology.
Adam had free will and chose to misuse it and thus sinned...no sin nature required to sin......nor is one passed on or Adam's Guilt. Each souls that sins shall die. All have sinned, and walk in Adam's Way...which leads to death. All may have Life if they are faithful and walk in Christ's Way. God's Grace enables us to Walk in the Light, and without it we cannot continue in it. Adam proves this. As the Eastern saying goes,"God became man, so that man might become like God" sharing in His nature by the Grace of His Holy Spirit provided by the Work and Faithfulness of Christ. Many are summoned, but in the end few are selected. God foresaw and thus foreknows all who shall accept Christ and become conformed into His image, as well as all who shall reject Christ and remain conformed to Adam's Image. Two classes are foreseen and thus their ends foreknown....the Righteous Faithful who will inherit Life and the Unrighteous Unfaithful who will inherit Death. This was taught in the Torah of Moses, the Prophets, the Writings, the Gospels and the Epistles...and Revelations seals this.
So in the Eastern churches and those of us in the West who follow in their Path do not bother with arguing the point.....
The Latinate West is in bondage to Augustine, Luther and Calvin. Yes Luther holds Augustinian views too.....ever read his book, The bondage of the Will"?
evenso.....we are saved by grace not our fallible prouncouncements concerning it and it's origins.
Ken