Gluttony

[mikew]

This one jumps out!

Proverbs 23:2 ... put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony. NIV

This was only if you were before a king and he was enticing you with his foods.

[selah]

Homer wrote:

Another disclaimer: My doctor, at my recent check-up, said I was only slightly overweight, holding his thumb and finger about an inch apart.

Homer, this is my disclaimer too!

You wrote so many important comments that I want to respond to, so I need time to prepare my written thoughts. It may take a few days because I've been pretty sick lately. (getting better now, Praise the Lord!)

I do want to say this now though. When Teresa called TNP, I listened intently for several reasons. Then when you called, I was grateful for the follow-up conversation. I want you to know that my opinions have absolutely nothing to do with condemnation or calling people sinners. If that be the case brother, then I am in trouble! The way I see it, let him who has not sinned cast the first stone. That stops a few stones from flying, doesn't it?

I respect Teresa. It sounded to me like her phone call was because she is facing her flesh and desiring to be sanctified like Jesus talks about in John 17:19. I think Christian overeaters are "saints" (Col 1:2a; Phil 4:21-22; Phil 1:1b) just like all the other brethren. So in a way, I look up to Teresa. I write from the perspective of one who also wants to face her flesh and be sanctified. I think most of the people you mentioned in your post who sit in church want to do that too. Maybe there really is a battle going on. I saved the article you sent, then will read it and hope to reply soon. Okay, I'll go for now.

[selah]

Homer,

I am sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you on this thread! From around April 10 through May 5th, I was not well so I was not on the forum very often. However, during my recovery, I read Leviticus 11 a couple of times and Galations about seven times--from five different translations. I really wanted to understand something about law verses liberty before I responded to you!

While it is true that Paul in Galations was referring to other aspects of the law, I want to relate his words to the Levitical laws regarding health, found in Leviticus. I also want to invite you into my "glass house" and be totally transparent because I want you to know that I do not want to "throw the first stone" nor do I want any thrown my way!

Homer wrote:

My concern is that we may be like Pharisees, heaping burdens on people they are unable to bear by focusing on trivial matters the scriptures do not address, or at least only address indirectly. Someone struggling to attain the proper weight doesn't need to have the "sinner" label slapped on them.

Most of my adult life, I have struggled to attain a "proper weight" and believe me, worse words than "sinner" were, to use your word, "slapped" on me because of my weight. Likewise among my peers, many, many ladies I have known in and out of the Christian church have struggled to get and/or maintain a healthy weight. Before becoming a Christian I attempted my own route to healthy weight through the Twelve Step Program. After becoming a Christian, I abandoned the 12 steps and read the Bible, taking note of what the scriptures said regarding gluttony. Initially, I could not understand why Christians did not address this issue as sin. Of course, variables apply within the issue of gluttony that may not apply elsewhere when one can choose to completely abstain. Take for example, your statement about having extra potatoes.

Homer said

I think that it is clearly sin when our consumption causes someone else to do without food. I do not think that if I eat a little more mashed potatoes and gravy that the poor orphan in Africa is going to be affected one way or the other.

Paul's words about "each being convinced in his own mind" seem to apply as a principle here. If you feel it is okay to have more mashed potatoes, then your brother should NOT condemn you. However, if I on the other hand, believe it is a sin for me to have more, then it is NOT for a brother to consider me too strict.

Categorically, American Christians have a terrible struggle--as a whole--with gluttony. All one needs to see this is to look around them. We are a nation of growing obesity, in and out of Christianity. Not that underweight is necessarily any more or less healthy as obesity. Everything rests upon who is leading us--the HOLY SPIRIT--and following HIS guidance day by day, precept upon precept, even bite after bite. You may think my viewpoint is legalistic, so let me give you an example from a different issue--that of drinking alcohol. When my 24 year old son was seven, a family member died in a drunken condition, so a few months later when I had my annual glass of wine at Christmas with my Lutherin friend ( I was not a Christian yet) my son was afraid I would be "the next alcoholic in the family to die." Rather than minimize his fears, I capitalized on them and entered into a contract with him that neither he nor I would have any alcoholic drink until he reached the age of 21. (I was hoping adherance to this contract would get him safely through the turbulant teen years.) During those 13 years from the time we entered this contract until he turned 21, I became a Christian and grew in my appreciation for the communion ceremony. So upon his 21st birthday, I bought crackers and a bottle of liqueor--sp? and visited his home. I reminded him of our contract, which I had adhered to, and then suggested that he and I remember the sacrifice that Jesus made for us while I drank my first alcoholic drink in 13 years. He agreed and we had a pleasant visit and prayer. It did not seem like a big thing at the time but the effect upon me has been long-lasting. EVERY time I have had a drink since that day three years ago, I have thought about Jesus Christ and his sacrifice for me! How could I overstep HIS desire for me in this area when HE is so close to me?! Likewise with food, I believe it is the same. As we enter into fellowship with the Spirit of Jesus and as HE says "sup" with HIM, we become closer and closer to following HIM, even in the "little" things.

Here is another example, this one from my childhood: I was raised very strict Seventh Day Adventist and so pickles were a sin to eat, and coffee was sin, pork was a sin, even beef was heavily frowned on in my home. However, at church potlucks there was a very obese lady who loaded two full plates each meal--and then she gossiped about the other people in the church during her meal. As a child, I wondered why "we" were so concerned about ironing my Sabbath dress by sundown (5:56 p.m, NOT 5:58!) Friday night, yet there was no visible accountablility for this lady; she continued to eat and gossip. It set a very poor example.

Now I'm finally going to write about Galations and the law verses liberty. What purpose does the law (Lev 11) serve? Gal. 3:19 says "it was added because of transgressions." Apparently, enough Children of Israel did not heed wisdom (in many areas of their lives) so the LORD had to discipline his children with rules. Galations 4:1-3 illustrates this simply as a child growing up who needs a guard or tutor. I like to think of this in modern vernacular as a mother or father teaching rules, say bedtime rules, to the child, but when the child grows up (vs. 4-7) they are free to do as they please. What does this mean to me? Certainly not that the adult child may now get away with never sleeping regular sleep patterns, or that he may always eat anything he likes, but rather he is free to walk in wisdom, listen and obey the Spirit of the law, not burdened by the letter of the law. An example in my own life is that for several years the Holy Spirit prompted me to change my eating habits but I resisted and even ate more of the things I felt prompted NOT to eat. Now, my health is such that I cannot eat as I once could. Perhaps had I heeded the Holy Spirit, I would be more healthy today. We will never know for sure, but this I do know: This lesson has been costly to me and others!

Anyway, as an adult Christian (for ten years now) I have really wanted to honor my KING Jesus by eating temperately, yet of all of the "sins of the flesh" this was the hardest for me to conquer. Why do I want to conquer it, you may ask? Well for starters, so I can live long enough to accomplish HIS will in my life. I do not want to be like Sampson and know God accomplished HIS will not by my life, but by my death. I have not had to look far in my own life to realize that poor eating habits over a lifetime can adversely effect health.

I grant you this, Homer, I agree that some people do eat healthily and they still get sick. There is that variable so I don't want you to think that I see a 100% linear cause and effect--but generalities. Another reason I want to conquer overeating is to leave a healthy legacy for the younger people in my midst, beginning with my children and grandchildren. If they see their mother and grandmother eat poorly, they too may follow suit. Finally, what about the young women that I, as an older woman, am instructed in Titus 2: 3-5 to teach? Many of the young ladies over the past ten years that I have spent time in Bible study and prayer with have struggles with their appetite. If I am to teach them to observe all things as Jesus commanded, I want to teach them by my example to follow the Holy Spirit in all thing so that they do all things to the glory of God, this being the highest reason--to glorify God.

Homer wrote

My original point in calling Steve was to establish that overeating, in my opinion, is a lesser sin than a sin where temptation is more easily avoided. When you contemplate eating that piece of pie offered to you when you are no longer hungry, and consider the host who labored to make that pie, and might feel bad when you refuse, the temptation is much harder to avoid than some sin where you must get yourself ready, get in your car, and drive somewhere to indulge. And in the latter case, if it was a sin, I would think you would be more culpable.

I would agree in the culpable aspect of your examples above. Being tempted, however innocently by a kind host, and not wanting to refuse, this is vastly different, in my opinion, than what would constitute gluttony. Even if one is weak in gluttony, isn't it wonderful that "love covers a multitude of sins?" As a result of knowing the struggles, we could pray for those whom we know struggle. I am sure that the prayer is more about resting in the Holy Spirit's lead in our lives, and less about what our next bite will be.

I know an eldery lady who is in big trouble with her health because of her lifetime habits. Rather than condemn her, I should pray for her. Then, if or when I am ever called by God to speak out to her, HIS love will come forth, not my chagrin. I hope that someone out there is praying for me. As we put on tender mercies for one another, I believe the Lord touches us, as well as those we are praying for.

My desire, although at times I have failed God, has been to "be sanctified" and gain victory over gluttony (and every work of the flesh). To me, gluttony is no less or no more a sin than smoking, or drinking, or exercising, or television, or sports, etc. We need moderation in all things, to be led by the Holy Spirit in all things. And finally, I think I remember Steve saying in one of his teachings that gluttony is a character flaw. What?!, I thought. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that in my case, he was right. If there is interest, I'll share about character and how I consider it represented by the choices we make regarding our fleshly desires.

God bless you Homer! If for no other reason, for reading this entire post!

Your sister in the liberty of Jesus Christ,
Selah*