"The Recovery Movement"

[_Rick_C]

"The Recovery Movement"

Thanks, Steve, for taking my call on TNP radio today. Once again, I apologize for being tired and not very focussed...I wrote some notes before I called but couldn't seem to follow them!

I want to say that, for any readers who may have a problem with substance abuse, or other addictive and/or maladaptive behaviors (in other words, with certain sins): Or if you know or are related to someone who has these kinds of problems---there is hope through Jesus Christ. I am an ex-alcoholic through him, dear friends. Praise God!

At any rate, I called Steve today because I'm concerned about the future of some "Christian 12 Step meetings" in my area. I've been involved with two of them and can only go to one right now (because they are now held at the same time). Both of these meetings are almost "closed" (attendance is way down and both need new leadership)....

I had helped one of these meetings "get set up" with the Introductory Readings (similar to what you hear in regular 12 step meetings, like A.A.). There was a bit about "Who We Are" ("Welcome to"...the meeting times announced, free coffee & snacks, where the bathrooms are, etc.).

The reading also had something like, "While we acknowledge that medical science and 12 step programs offer help: Our "view of recovery" is based in the God of the Bible. We are mindful to have a biblical worldview, "according to how God sees us": Realizing from where He has brought us, where He has us today, and to where He is leading us, both in this life and in the life to come. We are ever mindful of the saying, "But for the Grace of God, there go I." For His Grace, which is so freely given to us, we continually thank God Our Father, and His Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ. We aim to to live God's Will in every facet of our living through the help of the Holy Spirit, Who instructs, guides, and comforts along the way. We're saints but we aren't perfect, though we aim for it. When we fail our prayer is, "Lord, I believe. But help my unbelief!" (Then some other stuff I forgot and)....This meeting is open all: Everyone is welcome."

This particular meeting revised what "I had" and added quite a lot more.
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Here are the 12 steps of A.A. (then see what I have below, thanks)
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

A Critique of the 12 Steps by "Secret Agent Orange" can be found here:
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-interpreted.html
("A. Orange" is probably a Roman Catholic...(I know he believes in God)....and doesn't mince about with words...be forewarned that some of the content isn't rated "G" in that he responds to letters from irate readers. I do not agree with everything "A. Orange" says...but do with most)....
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Just for brainstorming & to get some ideas, I've come up with the following.
(The numbers coincide with A.A.'s steps which I have rearranged and reworded in an attempt to make them biblical):

4. We opened ourselves to the searching of the Holy Spirit, Who convicts of sin and teaches truth.

1. We saw we needed God; that we had not successfully managed our lives on our own strength.

5. Admitted to our sins (our wrong-doings) to ourselves and to God.

3. Made a decision live for God as revealed in the Bible, under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

6. In so doing, we changed our minds about continuing the habitual practise of sin.

2. Came to believe that God, through Christ, restores His Image in us.

7. We asked Him to empower us for holy (correct and wholesome) living, and for help in our weaknesses.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, with an aim to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. We continued to take stock of our lives by listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit. Whenever we were wrong we admitted it to any and all concerned, including God and others.

11. Maintained fellowship with God through prayer and in meditation on Him and His Word (the Bible), both as individuals and in fellowship with others. We prayed we might know Him better, asking for the power to do His Will.

12. Having experienced the joys of spiritual rebirth in Christ, we meet with other believers to worship, share one another's burdens, and carry this Message of the Kingdom of God to others.
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Any thoughts or input?
Thanks again Steve....it was really weird and totally cool actually talking with you,
(It was just like a regular ol' phone call)....
P.S. I'm going to relisten to the broadcast since I think I missed some stuff, lol, and to your "Biblical Counsel for a Change" lectures. God bless!

[_Rick_C]

I see no one's replied...which is not-a-problem,

Updates & Further Thoughts.
A. One of the meetings I helped "get going" has (permanent) new leadership and will be doing the Celebrate Recovery program. I was invited to participate and be their guitar player but told them I probably wouldn't as I'm not all that "sold" on Christian versions of the 12 Steps. I did go through one session last week, which was interesting. However, I later told the new director that I prefer meetings "where we just talk." CR is more of a "discipleship class" in the initial stages. Later on, I was told there would be more talking.

There are certain elements of psychology within CR that I'm not especially keen on. They could be said to be compatible with being a Christian to some degree. But since I'm more theologically conservative...I don't think the CR program is really made for folks like me. I'm sure it's done good for others and I took a few good ideas from the one session I went to. I'm more into persons-to-persons "sharing" where we all get to say what is on our minds.

B. We met at the other meeting (I usually go) to last nite. I've voiced my views about "Christianized 12 Steps" with these folks before. Last nite, I talked about this again and...it almost seems like...well...this meeting is about to shut down. If I were as convinced about Christianized 12 Steps as some of the others seem to be, I'd volunteer to be the "leader" of this group (that is, the one who is there every week, setting things up, and "chairing" the meeting).

The founder of this meeting in my town passed away in December 2006, after a brief battle with cancer. I mentioned his death on the forum when it happened and thank those of you who posted your condolences once again.

The "readings" we read at the beginning of this meeting have some statements that aren't true. Whoever wrote them mistakenly identified the "Oxford Group Movement"---which was a theologically liberal Christian group and the precursor to A.A. that started at Oxford University in England---with the Wesleyan Revival!

The only "link" between the Oxford Group and John Wesley is that Wesley attended Oxford U. The old Oxford Groupers did read some Methodist literature and some of them were undoubtedly born-again Christians. However, the theology of the OG itself is not Methodist or Wesleyan.
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At any rate, in my first post I sort of "parodied" the 12 Steps, which is a very popular thing to do these days. I still have an inner desire (or something along those lines) to see a meeting get going that is truly based on Biblical Christianity, from start to finish. At the same time, the 12 Steps "format" makes the meetings accessible to non-Christians...and people who have been assigned by the Judge to go to A.A. can come to these meetings to get their papers signed off.

However, the former leader who is with the Lord now, Mr. Mike Olson, was also a local Alcohol & Drug Counselor. He was able to "promote" our meetings on the job (and, apparently, the ACLU never found out about it), Amen! But since Brother Mike is no longer with us...we have very few Judge-recommended visitors now.

Praise God...I'll just pray for His leading in these things.
Thanks for letting me "share",

[Guest]

Rick, in your Christianized A.A., do your people subscribe to the regular A.A.'s position "Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic"? Or do you believe that through Christ a person can cease being an alcoholic?

[_Rick_C]

Rick, in your Christianized A.A., do your people subscribe to the regular A.A.'s position "Once an alcoholic always an alcoholic"?

In the group I've primarily gone to (since Jan. 04, job hours permitting), I'm the only person who doesn't introduce her/himself as, "I'm ____ and I'm an alcoholic."

I do sometimes say, "I'm Rick, and I'm a recovered alcoholic." I usually say something like, "My name is Rick, and I'm an ex-drunk."

Or do you believe that through Christ a person can cease being an alcoholic?

I believe my alcoholism is in the past tense, that I no longer "am one" based on:
1 Cor. 6 (NIV)
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you WERE. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
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Actually, I refer to the above verses often when I go to Christian recovery meetings. "My testimony" is that, when I believed what these verses say, I was able to stop drinking---somewhat "miraculously"---considering my track record.

Back when I believed A.A.'s teachings ("once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic") I would get and stay sober for periods of time; for weeks or months, on & off. But that was the problem...it didn't "stick."

Since I saw that God has placed my drinking problem in the past, I believe it! And the former struggles I used to have are essentially gone. I still get tempted on occasion. However, the temptation usually doesn't last long. I pray immediately now, and sometimes call another person (who may or may not have had a drinking problem). On average, when I am tempted, it doesn't last more than a few seconds. If it lasts longer than a minute or so, I keep praying till it lifts and/or will call someone too.
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At the Celebrate Recovery meeting I went to over a week ago, I introduced myself, "I'm Rick, and I'm an ex-drunk." For this, I was "corrected." I was told I shouldn't identify myself as that. I didn't say anything in reply...(figuring that "I'm here" and should go along with their program, which apparently doesn't focus on things in the same way I do(?).

We then listened to Rick Warren and the testimonies of two "CR" members on a CD. Each of the members introduced themselves as "I'm ____ and I struggle with _____." (One person listed "codependency", the other, "alcoholism").

Now, had I said, "My name's Rick and I struggle with alcoholism," I don't know if I would have been telling the truth. I can't say I "struggle" with it in the same sense I used to by any means (which was all the time, more or less). I get the occasional temptation, maybe once every two or three months.
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Anyway, thanks for your questions, Don.
You've prompted me to think on these things again.

On the radio, Steve said he's known many Christians who have led and participated in "Christian 12 Step" meetings. As far as I know, I'm the only person in my area who attends these meetings that doesn't believe in the "disease model" or that it is an ongoing "lifelong struggle" from which I will be "always recovering."

It may just be that I have the unique testimony of how God delivered me. I do "share" it in the meetings and elsewhere. Perhaps God will use it something like a "cog within the system", so to speak, whenever I go to these meetings....

P.S. In both of the Christian meetings held in my area, they do not limit "the problem(s)" to alcohol or drugs. The meetings are open to people with other problems, such as their having a friend or family member with an alcohol, drug, or other "addictive" problem. Some are "recovering" from divorce or other past relationship. More could be said about this, I suppose, but I'll leave it there.... Thanks.

[Guest]

If the habit of abusing one's self freely by habitually seeking to abuse alcohol, drugs, food and sex in order to remedy deep inner pain and the bondage to sin is a clinical disease that only a 10 step self help group and legal medications can arrest day to day...but never curing......Then I am a recovering sinner, churchianity is my 10 step self help program and communion is my licit medication. NOT!

I was once a regularly drunken, dope using, deeply self abusive prodigal son who had vast amounts of inner pain, hurts, open wounds and bitterness (1982 - 1990). I finally came home one night and begged God to rstore me to my first love and place me back on the path He ordained for me from the start. I submitted fully and said He could take from my life all that was standing in my way to Him and the Obedience of saving Faith.

Bam! All of it ceased even to this very hour. I lost everything I once held precious: My Home, My Possesions, My Money, My Wife, My Job and My Friends. I needed to recover from being recovered! It hurt and I was broken on the Rock of Offense. I was sifted, melted, smelted and tried by the fires of starting over with nothing but my clothes, my kids and their clothes......that was it. Was I tempted to return to my vomit...yet. But the Holy Spirit gave birth to a thick skulled baby, but I was no fool. Like Job I went through it.........but it was for the best.

Like the prodigal son I was restored and I was given a New Life, a New Wife and MORE KIDS!!!! I was put into the fire again for the last 5 years, but have a new Kidney and a new future.

What I was formally was ended when I fully submitted.........so I say no Biblically and from My own experience to the recovery programs begun in Self Help America. I once practiced sin...no more. So I still sin...yep! But I do not make it a habit...plus I do not repeat the same old sins...I guess I find new and interesting ways to stubble. But Christ who strengthens me picks me up and I get back on the track and run baby run.



Orthodox1

[Guest]

Thank you for your testimonies.

Orthodox, I have been deeply grieving over a "prodigal child"
(adult) actually, I really do not think he/she was ever saved.
Your testimony really cheered me tonight,I know when God is
involved hope is present.

Rick, I am glad that you do not consider yourself a "drunk"
we all have areas of our life that we struggle with. I know
that I am nothing without the Lord.

THANK YOU FOR THE ENCOURAGEMENT

[Guest]

Dear Cheered up,

Prodigal children of God tend to be short sighted, fast living and eager to test everything they have been told i.e. The School of Hard Knocks. My journey to the pig pen began after years of "Pentacostal-Charismania" programing and told "Sola Scriptura" for everything. But when I was given a Greek Language Book, Greek Lexicon, a Greek/Englsih NT & LXX and told to study as a young teen (which I did as a bookish kid) Tons of things did not add up.........then my Mom died of terminal cancer on Oct 12, 1992. We were told she died cause her husband didn't speak in tongues and we all did not have enough Faith. Her dying process was horrid and a stumbling block on me at 16. Keith Green had died earlier that year and I was still dismayed by that. This pushed me over the edge. I ran

I did what I was told was sin and did not stop until the early 90s. I went to a Protestant Seminary in the 80s!! Learned Greek, some Hebrew and tons of Theology! But I was still prodigal and I knew it. In an attempt to do it on my own I joined a House Church and became an Elder. The Church split. I was disallussioned and left my position as elder. My marriage was destroyed by my ex-wife's two affairs and so I had to "Fish or Cut Bait." I ran home to Daddy on High.

I guess "Back Sliders" are either doubting folks or churchianity's walking wounded. I doubted the faith I was conditioned to believe and was the walking wounded from this religions abuses, heresies and my inability to see this god of Pentacostal-Charismania in any of my hero Keith Green's and My Mother's horrible deaths. I did not reject God or Christ so much...but I hated and rejected all those churches I once was trained in. I had the spiritual rug pulled out from under my young feet.

I minister to those burned out walking wounded to this day. I am no longer a Protestant other than still protesting Rome's errors. I continue to withstand what I know to be modern revived "Neo-Montanism" known as Pentacostalism and it's origins among the Molokon-Jumpers (Paulicians of Armeno-Georgia) who relocated to Azuza, California before "the revival." I kno it's American origins actually began in the racist Topeka, Kanses movement in 1901. Though I know and believe in the Charismatic Gifts, as do all Orthodox Christians.....we are Beraeans and reject all that fails the test of Scripture and shows up as a revived historical heresy.

So there is vast hope for all who dine with swine! God loves all humanity, and desires no person's fall into sin and death. He knows our frailties and has compassion for his potentially great creatures called Humans, but who on their own fall prey to Satan and the distractions and lures of this sensual world we are born into. Pray for those who seem strong in the Lord as well as those who seem pig pen prodigals.............both are mere humans who constantly need God's energizing Grace to stand at the Last day as Saints in His Son's Image and Likeness.

God saves! It is man who withdraws! So return to Him who has summoned you in His Love, Who has foreseen your place in the world to come and has therefore preselected your glory in Him who is All in All. With God all things are possible......even resurrection of the spiritually dead......particularly those abused and killed by all types of churchianity.

Is it not strange how two "Jesus Freaks" (1970 - 1979) like Steve and I can come from the same Movement and end up in such different places? Steve and I are good buddy's in Christ and we both enjoy a good laugh. In God's Israel there are many folds, but just One Good Shepherd.


Peace,
Rt. Rev. +Ken Huffman

[_Rick_C]

Hello MLH and Ken (Orthodox1).

I can relate to a lot in your testimony, Ken. It's a good thing to no longer be a drunkard, now isn't it? Praise God! Amen.

I've started a new (and related) thread here on the topic of "my recovery". Actually, it is also a strong critique of Calvinism (and some Calvinists I know). Btw, I've already strongly disagreed with them in person (actually "talking" with them in Paltalk).

In a related note: Hank Hanegraaff's Christian Research Journal has a new article on "The Recovery Movement." However, it is not accessible to the public from his site. I don't know when or if it will be.

Brief Update.
One of the 'Christian' 12 Step meetings I've gone to (the one which is almost about to "close"); I've emailed several people about trying their best to be there this week to discuss it's future. Yesterday I "met" a Christian brother in a "12 Steps Chatroom" who I actually already knew from going to A.A. and also saw this brother at a church service which is "designed for people in recovery." He expressed a desire to go a 'Christian' meeting and will probably come this week.

For anyone led to pray about the meeting's future, thanks, we need it.
God bless you and I will pray for MLH's significant other (child).

[_dulcimerpete]

Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic …

Whatever you call yourselves now, do you (or do you think you could) drink "normally" now?

I no longer suffer from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. God has healed me. I do not believe that I can drink "normally”. I’m not putting God in a box. It seems to be the prudent response to the gift of sobriety that my Father has given me.

Peace,

[_Rick_C]

Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic …

Whatever you call yourselves now, do you (or do you think you could) drink "normally" now?

I announce myself as an "ex-(or former)-drunk" or "recovered alcoholic" at both Christian 12 Step meetings and A.A. (the latter of which which I go rarely: 2 or 3 times in the last year, mostly to see old friends). On occasion I say (in both), "I'm Rick and I have a desire to stop drinking" (the only requirement for A.A. membership).

When I was in and out of A.A., or trying to "decide" if I was an alcoholic independently (not going to meetings), I tried "normal" drinking. I could do it for weeks or maybe a few months in my initial attempts. But I always wound up drinking too much and, sooner or later, went back to to A.A. As time went on, I went in "spurts" of shorter periods of time of sobriety; sometimes only for a few days or hours! The next to last time I drank (again, before sobering up this time), lasted 3 weeks.

Last nite we met at the Christian 12 Step meeting I wrote about above. Most of the "regulars" were able to come and I asked them if they understood why I do not say "I'm an alcoholic (based on 1 Cor. 6:9-11)." They assured me they do understand, though they themselves do not see it like I do (as they still say, and believe they are, alcoholics, which they went on to explain).

Having come to A.A. in 1987 and being heavily involved in it; I quickly understood their beliefs of why they think they still are. I "heard them out" though I already knew what they believe (as I used to, etc.). They didn't seem to be trying to convince me of their views and I made it a point to tell them I'm not trying to push my views on them....

However, I did say my experience went how it went and I no longer hold to A.A. beliefs regarding alcoholism. I'm considering slowing down on going to these meetings (not going as often) or, perhaps, stopping for the most part: A.A. doctrines have been dangerous for me in the past is why. If I wind up not going as often, I'm sure I'll still go back to see my friends occasionally, as I do at A.A.

To answer your question:
As a former alcoholic, I can't take the chance on becoming one again:
Therefore, I don't drink at all.

I no longer suffer from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.

"Big Book," Foreword to the First Edition,

God has healed me. I do not believe that I can drink "normally”. I’m not putting God in a box. It seems to be the prudent response to the gift of sobriety that my Father has given me.

And Amen, Pete!
God is good...(When?)...ALL THE TIME!
I think I'll celebrate that with a big, cold, tall glass of IcedT,