TNP March 14th

Post by **_featheredprop** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:13 am

I just finished listening to the lively Steve-Jim debate of the March 14th broadcast... Why anyone would go out and pay for entertainment when you can be freely entertained at home like this is beyond me.

That was fun ...

peace,

dane

Post by **_Steve** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:24 am

Our conversations become animated. I hope it is obvious to to new listeners that Jim and I are good old friends and love each other. I enjoy it when he calls.

Post by **__id_2620** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:25 am

I thougth that conversation was awesome. I listened with a very attentive ear (well, okay two ears). I took some good notes for further study, thanks Steve

I am one of those "newer listeners" and could tell Steve and the caller were old buddies.

I am just so incredibly thankful for a internet show like TNP that I have learned I can rely on for Solid answers to Calvinism.

Thank you again Steve.

In Jesus, Greg

Post by **_Suzana** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:33 am

I thougth that conversation was awesome. I listened with a very attentive ear (well, okay two ears). I took some good notes for further study, thanks Steve
(Greg)

I also found the exchange was great listening. But as well it has prompted me to look again at the Calvinism/Arminianism/Open Theism topic - starting at the beginning, back in 2004, starting from the bottom of the page - and am finding lots of helpful information in those early discussions.

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:08 am

Has anyone here heard Gene Cook's latest radio show? Jim called him and admitted that Steve wiped the floor with him(His word's, not mine).

I was expecting it to become a "Bash Steve" event, but it didn't. Gene was very respectful and so was Jim. Gene admitted that Steve was a good bible teacher, and said that anyone who wanted to defend the non-Calvinist position should listen to Steve. All in all, I was impressed.

Post by **_darin-houston** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:15 pm

I listened to it today - it was very good (after you get through the first 10 minutes of useless and banal discussion they so often engage in - at least it was only 10 minutes).

There were a few specific bits of interest:

(a) circumcision of the heart -- they suggest that Steve was surprised during his debate with the suggestion that OT believers were circumcised of the heart (which they equate to regeneration).

(b) two wills -- they went on and on as to the two wills of God (decretive vs. prescriptive)

(c) As to Matthew 23:37-39, they satisfied Jim as to the two wills argument, but after the call Gene explained further that he agrees with the Arminians (and not James White) that this suggests one can resist God (even if only one will) but that he can't admit that to an Arminian or it proves their point. I thought this revealed a very disingenuous aspect of his debate style and I lost a great deal of respect for him as I thought he was striving to honestly search his doctrines (even if he is a bit sarcastic and dismissive of others).

Did anyone else notice notable points?

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:32 pm

I listened to it today - it was very good (after you get through the first 10 minutes of useless and banal discussion they so often engage in - at least it was only 10 minutes).

I agree about whole-heartedly with the "useless" discussion part. Gene is very bad about rambling on and on, but I must say that James White is far worse than Gene. At least most of Genes stuff is funny, James' stuff is sometimes painful to listen to....

There were a few specific bits of interest:

(a) circumcision of the heart -- they suggest that Steve was surprised during his debate with the suggestion that OT believers were circumcised of the heart (which they equate to regeneration).

I am not sure I understand this one fully myself...I have heard both sides of the argument, but must admit that I have never spent much time on it...I know that the Spirit was not given until Jesus was glorified, and I know that the Spirit did not come in His fullness until the day of Pentecost. But it seems that men had the Spirit in the OT, like when David said "Take not thy Holy Spirit from me?"...I am not sure I got a good grasp on this yet....

(b) two wills -- they went on and on as to the two wills of God (decretive vs. prescriptive)

I am greatly entertained when I hear Calvinist talk about this one. I almost feel embarrassed for them when someone starts questioning them about it....

(c) As to Matthew 23:37-39, they satisfied Jim as to the two wills argument, but after the call Gene explained further that he agrees with the Arminians (and not James White) that this suggests one can resist God (even if only one will) but that he can't admit that to an Arminian or it proves their point. I thought this revealed a very disingenuous aspect of his debate style and I lost a great deal of respect for him as I thought he was striving to honestly search his doctrines (even if he is a bit sarcastic and dismissive of others).

To some, losing an argument is not in the question. They will go to whatever lengths it takes to look like the victor.

I recently stopped posting over at another forum(Carm) ran by Mr. Matt Slick. I find this man's attitude and apologetic to be horrifying, and thats putting it mildly. I question anyone who can't admit the possibility of being in error on a matter. I wrote(typed)him a message at his website, and the response I got was "If you don't like my show, you ain't got to listen". And then he gave me a warning and a suspension because I "rebuked an elder"...

Did anyone else notice notable points?

Did you catch Genes response to 1 Cor where Paul says "the natural man cannot understand the things of God"....?

Post by **_darin-houston** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:04 pm

Did you catch Genes response to 1 Cor where Paul says "the natural man cannot understand the things of God"....?

I remember him making the tired old point, but also think I remember him just mocking the position. Did he actually make a rational point on the subject, or just state the position?

He did mention in passing with Jim that Arminians just don't seem to realize that Cornelius was a proselyte and hence believer, etc. My understanding is that a god-fearer is not really a proselyte and would be a "natural man". I'm sure he's heard that point and would love to see him address it instead of just repeating the mantra that he was a believer.

Post by **_featheredprop** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:45 am

darin-houston wrote:I listened to it today - it was very good

Darin,

Is that a free podcast download, or you have to buy it from his website?

peace,

dane

Post by **_darin-houston** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:39 am

It's free on his podcast in lower (normal) quality, but if you wait and it goes to archive, you have to pay (I think a week or so).