Hi Glow--
funny you bring up turning the other cheek- this is the 2nd time i have heard this in the last 24 hrs-- maybe God is trying to tell me something.
but i must confess that sometimes i am not sure in exactly what context we are required to turn the other cheek. the other mention i heard of turning the other cheek was during a discussion we were having after a bible study about islamic terrorism. one person was making the point that we are not required to just "sit back and take it" and that we have a duty to defend against radical terrorist acts. that's when the other person brought up "turning the other cheek."
to me, turning the other cheek applies to personal offense, as an insult, but does not necessarily mean the same as self-defense from physical harm, either to myself or my family. in other words if a rapist breaks into my home, he will not touch me or my family if i can help it.
the same applies to standing up for Jesus. i am not required to allow others to defame the name of Jesus in the interest of turning the other cheek. nor should questionable statements here on this forum go unchallenged.
THAT BEING SAID... it does appear that the sarcasm above is perhaps out of line. like my grandma used to say, sarcasm is the weapon of the week.
TK
THERE ARE ONLY TWO RELIGIONS IN THE WORLD
TK/Glow,
I'm not sure either of our posts was sarcastic so much as impatient. Maybe that's the flaw. I come here to learn more about Christ and the Scriptures. If somebody's coming here merely to disrupt, I don't see a lack of respect for their posts as a bad thing.
Iron sharpens iron, but when the iron is just hitting us over the head, there's no benefit. If we can't strike back with our iron (read: opinions), nobody's sharpened. I'd better quit before I stretch the analogy too much (too late
)
However, I will say this (borrowed that statement from Mr. Gregg), my intent was not to offend; it was merely to draw gracemonger out into actual dialogue. Any disrespect was at the method of posting, not at the poster personally. I embrace gracemonger as a brother/sister in Christ...but I'm not sure it goes both ways.
I'm not sure either of our posts was sarcastic so much as impatient. Maybe that's the flaw. I come here to learn more about Christ and the Scriptures. If somebody's coming here merely to disrupt, I don't see a lack of respect for their posts as a bad thing.
Iron sharpens iron, but when the iron is just hitting us over the head, there's no benefit. If we can't strike back with our iron (read: opinions), nobody's sharpened. I'd better quit before I stretch the analogy too much (too late
)However, I will say this (borrowed that statement from Mr. Gregg), my intent was not to offend; it was merely to draw gracemonger out into actual dialogue. Any disrespect was at the method of posting, not at the poster personally. I embrace gracemonger as a brother/sister in Christ...but I'm not sure it goes both ways.
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However, I will say this (borrowed that statement from Mr. Gregg),
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Derek
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7
Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.
Psalm 20:7
Hi brothers I respect your opnions also.
My postion was regarding the sarcasm. To me that was kind of stepping "down" to another level if you know what I mean. I see and read posts from you brothers alot and I know you appear to have good solid hearts towards our father.
But myself on the other hand, I still remember even though it has been many a year being outside and looking in on the true knowledge of the Lord. In that I know, back then I was very sincere on my beliefs even though they were wrong in some senses but those that put me down or ridiculed me, put me off so much I think it was harder for me to open up to the "real" truth from the Lord and His family. I am still sensitive to that.
My youngest son (20) is struggling with the hypocrisy he sees right now with some Christians he has come in contact with. I was trying to help him understand there are as many peoples viewpoints on Christianity on some levels as there are Christians etc. He is struggling.
With possible believers or those still searching that are outside of the box but still trying hard to be devoted to the Lord in what they understand for now on their level, I think it is good that we remember we are all struggling some to find all the truth and we should majior on compassion. Even if we are not getting it back. Thats why I mentioned "turn the other cheek" I don't think gracemonger is just here to cause division, only our father can truly "judge that" don't you think? I know I sure don't want to take His place in that!
.. We all hopefully grow in our walk with the Lord over time. I beleive gracemonger may not understand some things but he also may be a very devoted person as of now with the insight he does glean at the moment. In that I believe we should be respectful, with out sarcasm with all who post here.
And some times I suppose just not even answering some times with any answer would be correct if the person was out and out blaspheming the Lord, after we have stated our opnion on where we do not meet eye to eye and why. I honestly did not get this from him. Maybe you brothers see something I am blind to. But in that case I would still hope the sarcasm wouldn't be there,
I am sorry if I offended anyone out here in cygerland and for taking this thread off base some. feel free to pm me if you feel the need.
Just my thoughts....Glow
My postion was regarding the sarcasm. To me that was kind of stepping "down" to another level if you know what I mean. I see and read posts from you brothers alot and I know you appear to have good solid hearts towards our father.
But myself on the other hand, I still remember even though it has been many a year being outside and looking in on the true knowledge of the Lord. In that I know, back then I was very sincere on my beliefs even though they were wrong in some senses but those that put me down or ridiculed me, put me off so much I think it was harder for me to open up to the "real" truth from the Lord and His family. I am still sensitive to that.
My youngest son (20) is struggling with the hypocrisy he sees right now with some Christians he has come in contact with. I was trying to help him understand there are as many peoples viewpoints on Christianity on some levels as there are Christians etc. He is struggling.
With possible believers or those still searching that are outside of the box but still trying hard to be devoted to the Lord in what they understand for now on their level, I think it is good that we remember we are all struggling some to find all the truth and we should majior on compassion. Even if we are not getting it back. Thats why I mentioned "turn the other cheek" I don't think gracemonger is just here to cause division, only our father can truly "judge that" don't you think? I know I sure don't want to take His place in that!
.. We all hopefully grow in our walk with the Lord over time. I beleive gracemonger may not understand some things but he also may be a very devoted person as of now with the insight he does glean at the moment. In that I believe we should be respectful, with out sarcasm with all who post here.
And some times I suppose just not even answering some times with any answer would be correct if the person was out and out blaspheming the Lord, after we have stated our opnion on where we do not meet eye to eye and why. I honestly did not get this from him. Maybe you brothers see something I am blind to. But in that case I would still hope the sarcasm wouldn't be there,
I am sorry if I offended anyone out here in cygerland and for taking this thread off base some. feel free to pm me if you feel the need.
Just my thoughts....Glow
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"Turn the other cheek" is misapplied about equally frequently as "Judge not that ye be not judged". Let's consider the context.
You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. "But I tell you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 38,39
Was Jesus not teaching that we should not seek revenge upon those who do us ill? That we should not have a spirit of revenge that seeks to "get even"? I did not detect any spirit of revenge in anyone here who made realistic comments to GM. Or do you think that GM is "one who is evil"? If so, you may be right.
Those who express the attitudes of GM ought to be rebuked sharply. This is a matter of correction, not revenge. I have seen Steve Gregg correct a number of people on this forum for their non-Christian attitudes, and I applaud him for it. The apostle Paul advocated the same:
Titus 1:13Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, instead of giving heed to Jewish myths or to commands of people who reject the truth
1 Timothy 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
"Walking softly" and "turning the other cheek" to those who oppose the ways of God and His people only encourages them in their obstinancy.
John the Baptizer certainly didn't ignore or speak kindly to his fellow Jews who arrogantly supposed that they possessed all truth. He called them "a brood of snakes".
Jesus Himself called them "hypocrites", "blind guides", and "whitewashed tombs". Did Jesus fail to take his own advice and "turn the other cheek"?
I don't think so. His instructions to turn the other cheek was stated in an entirely different context.
You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. "But I tell you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Matthew 38,39
Was Jesus not teaching that we should not seek revenge upon those who do us ill? That we should not have a spirit of revenge that seeks to "get even"? I did not detect any spirit of revenge in anyone here who made realistic comments to GM. Or do you think that GM is "one who is evil"? If so, you may be right.
Those who express the attitudes of GM ought to be rebuked sharply. This is a matter of correction, not revenge. I have seen Steve Gregg correct a number of people on this forum for their non-Christian attitudes, and I applaud him for it. The apostle Paul advocated the same:
Titus 1:13Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, instead of giving heed to Jewish myths or to commands of people who reject the truth
1 Timothy 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
"Walking softly" and "turning the other cheek" to those who oppose the ways of God and His people only encourages them in their obstinancy.
John the Baptizer certainly didn't ignore or speak kindly to his fellow Jews who arrogantly supposed that they possessed all truth. He called them "a brood of snakes".
Jesus Himself called them "hypocrites", "blind guides", and "whitewashed tombs". Did Jesus fail to take his own advice and "turn the other cheek"?
I don't think so. His instructions to turn the other cheek was stated in an entirely different context.
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Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
I find agreement with Paidion on this.
Many of the Epistles were in fact sharp rebukes to churches.
A great example that comes to mind is Galatians.
Paul spoke the following to Peter (in front of everyone) as recorded in :
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”
To the Galatian church Paul says:
Galatians 3:1-6
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
To the Judaizers attempting to turn the Galatian church from the gospel:
Galatians 5:12
I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!
Galatians 6:12-13
It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
Many of the Epistles were in fact sharp rebukes to churches.
A great example that comes to mind is Galatians.
Paul spoke the following to Peter (in front of everyone) as recorded in :
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”
To the Galatian church Paul says:
Galatians 3:1-6
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
To the Judaizers attempting to turn the Galatian church from the gospel:
Galatians 5:12
I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!
Galatians 6:12-13
It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
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I still find I just don't read gracemonger apparently as some of you others do. I don't see the sins so clear I am willing to stand on judgment on him.He may be misguided some as he is learning, but I don't see that as sin.
I live it up to my father to judge him. Glow
I live it up to my father to judge him. Glow
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