The Narrow Path Ministries

seer wrote:

mattrose wrote:I wouldn't attempt to force a muslim convert to stop using the word 'Allah' for God. But the discipleship process should definitely include a radical re-definition of God's character. To me, it's not really a question of whether muslim's are worshipping God or an idol. It's a question of how to rightly worship God. Right now, they are not rightly worshipping God b/c they are doing it outside of Christ. If they become Christians, they can worship 'Allah' in and through Christ.

How ya doing Matt? Like I said, who was this being that Mohammed spoke with? Who sent that angel? This clearly seems demonic. A angel of light who deceives...

Hey man

I agree that Islam is a demonic religion. But, for me, that doesn't change the fact that 'Allah' is simply their word for God. The words used are less important than the meanings poured into those words. If we pour in a Christ-centered meaning to their word 'Allah,' it's not overly problematic in my opinion. Of course, if they are willing/wanting to switch words, they are free to do so.

Hi Matt and seer.

I know we all know this, and sorry for stating the obvious, but for the purpose of completeness the meaning associated with Allah would have to include the Father, Son and Holy Spirit exclusively (nothing else revealed in Scripture). I think this was implied above, because to be in Christ would also include the Father and Holy Spirit.

Later bros.

Matt, I fully agree with your posts in this thread.

Seer wrote:Paidion, Mohammed claimed that God revealed Himself to him through the angel Gabriel. I do not doubt that Mohammed had this experience. So if he was not lying or deluded then who was this god? Was it the Christian God who requires the atoning sacrifice of Christ for justification? The God that sent His only begotten Son? No, Mohammed denied that Jesus was God's son, and they deny that Christ ever died on the cross. And they deny justification by said death. No Paidion, this is deception - and we know who the deceiver is....

Did I suggest in any way that Mohammed's "revelations" were given to Him by God? Possibly the revelation that there is one God, but probably nothing beyond that.

Has your desire for inclusivism made you blind?seer

On what basis do you judge that I have a desire for inclusivism? I suggest that you read and think before you make your hasty judgments.

If you think the Muslims worship a different God because they deny that Jesus was God's son and that justification comes through His death, then it follows that those of the Jewish faith also worship a different God for the same reason.

There are only three religions in the world who recognize one God: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

There are only three religions in the world who recognize God as creator of all: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

I don't say this because of any desire for inclusivism. I say it because it is a fact. Since there is, in fact, only one God who created all things, I think those in all three religions recognize the same God. But, as Matt indicated, each of the three see the character of God and what He did, in a different way. This is not only true of these three religions, but is also true of the denominations within Christianity, and people of various theological positions within Christianity.

Hi Paidion,

If you think the Muslims worship a different God because they deny that Jesus was God's son and that justification comes through His death, then it follows that those of the Jewish faith also worship a different God for the same reason.

There are only three religions in the world who recognize one God: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

There are only three religions in the world who recognize God as creator of all: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Men have worshipped many things that they considered God, most of which the bible classifies as idols. It is YHWH who must reveal Himself to man if man is to worship Him acceptably.

Judaism took the revelation of God and the things they were given by Him and offered it to idols. Whereas Mohammed heard about the God of Israel from Jews & Christians and made their own moon god (who they already called Allah) the representative of that God. The qualification for true worship however, acceptable to God, is in Spirit and in Truth - based upon His revelation of His Son Jesus as the Christ. Since Jews do not worship the Father in the way He prescribed, and they reject His revelation given to them in Jesus; I would have to say that Israel today is without Father and Son - which I believe is what John said too.

To worship the Creator as an unknown god, leaves one with making up his own god to serve as an idol. Calling that golden calf "YHWH" or "ALLAH" seems to be a moot point at best.

Did I suggest in any way that Mohammed's "revelations" were given to Him by God? Possibly the revelation that there is one God, but probably nothing beyond that.

Then who gave Mohammad those revelations? Was he lying or deluded? And he went way past claiming that there is one God. He claimed that God gave him the way of salvation - and it didn't include Christ's atoning sacrifice.

Has your desire for inclusivism made you blind?

On what basis do you judge that I have a desire for inclusivism? I suggest that you read and think before you make your hasty judgments.

Your universalism colors everything you write on this boards. It's obvious.


If you think the Muslims worship a different God because they deny that Jesus was God's son and that justification comes through His death, then it follows that those of the Jewish faith also worship a different God for the same reason.

Yep, the Jews are not worshiping the triune God of Christianity. The Jewish god doesn't have a Son who atones for sin. Our God does...

I don't say this because of any desire for inclusivism. I say it because it is a fact. Since there is, in fact, only one God who created all things, I think those in all three religions recognize the same God. But, as Matt indicated, each of the three see the character of God and what He did, in a different way. This is not only true of these three religions, but is also true of the denominations within Christianity, and people of various theological positions within Christianity.

And Matt said that Islam was satanic. Paidion, lies that contain part of the truth are still lies. Islam is a deception, it has lead millions away from the true gospel. We do not worship the same God, period. And to suggest otherwise is blasphemy. Have you no fear of God man?

Mograce wrote:To worship the Creator as an unknown god, leaves one with making up his own god to serve as an idol.

Interestingly, Paul stated that he was proclaiming the very "unknown god" which the Athenians worshipped! That being the case shows that Paul recognized this "unknown god" of the Athenians as the same God which he, Paul, preached.

Acts 17:23 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, ‘To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you.

Paidion wrote:Interestingly, Paul stated that he was proclaiming the very "unknown god" which the Athenians worshipped! That being the case shows that Paul recognized this "unknown god" of the Athenians as the same God which he, Paul, preached.

Acts 17:23 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, ‘To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you.

It still doesn't change the fact that they worshipped Him as an idol because they did not know Him. Whether God is worshipped as an idol or an idol is worshipped as though it were God - the end result is still idolatry.

What does it mean to worship the TRUE GOD as an idol? He is not an idol.

Paidion wrote:What does it mean to worship the TRUE GOD as an idol? He is not an idol.

Well the key word that describes it for me is "superstituously". Catholicism is perhaps an example. Not just for its icons but for all the things they have added to be a means of conferring grace. It can become a real snare if you stop counting at 49 beads when you say your "hail Mary's", or forget to cross yourself when you see a crucifix...

Robin wrote:Well the key word that describes it for me is "superstituously". Catholicism is perhaps an example. Not just for its icons but for all the things they have added to be a means of conferring grace. It can become a real snare if you stop counting at 49 beads when you say your "hail Mary's", or forget to cross yourself when you see a crucifix...

Catholics say that all of these things are not idols, but REMINDERS or REPRESENTATIONS of spiritual realities.

But even if statues, prayer beads, etc. were idols, would that mean that Catholics worship a different God? It does not appear that they worship the true God "as an idol".

In the case of Muslims, they are quite adamant about there being one true God, and as far as I know, they do not portray Him by means of statues or other symbols. So how could they worship Him "as an idol"? I do think they are a way off base in their understanding of God's character.

As I see it, understanding God's character is very important. We need to see Him as He really is in order to worship Him and serve Him in the manner He desires.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.