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Ezekiel 28 and Steve's Reasoning
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:39 pm
by PWS
I have read the previous post, Satan's Fall (08/20/08) along with Steve's teaching on Ezekiel 28 (Ezekiel 06). In listening to Steve's teaching on this subject, I agree that this is not about Satan's fall. However, in his argument, Steve claims that the prophecy--the casting out of this person--is future. Steve alludes to the middle of verse 16, where he says that God says He will (future!) do the casting out. If this is really so, then Satan's supposed fall prior to the Garden of Eden doesn't make sense. However, in my NASB, the middle of verse 16 reads: "Therefore I have cast you as profane . . . I have destroyed you." Verse 17 goes on to say: "I cast you to the ground." Verse 18 continues the thought: "Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; it has consumed you . . . I have turned you to ashes." All these verbs are in the past tense. Have they been translated correctly? Again, I agree with Steve that Satan's fall is not in view here. But this part of his argument doesn't seem to hold water. Can someone help me out, please!
Re: Ezekiel 28 and Steve's Reasoning
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:36 pm
by Singalphile
Unlike most translations, the KJV uses a future construction (e.g., "will cast") in
verses 16 through 18.
The KJV also uses the present tense in some of those verses where the other translations use a past tense. For example, the KJV reads, "Thou
sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty," but the NASB says, "You
had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty."
If you look at the Hebrew
here (biblehub.com), it indicates that those verbs in vs 16-18 should be future tense ("I will cast you", "I will destroy", "will bring you to ashes", etc.).
I don't know Hebrew at all. I've found it very difficult. It seems to have much less in common with English than the relatively easy Greek. Perhaps Hebrew does not have verb tenses at all. Actually, I just looked, and, yes, according to
this site, "Hebrew verbs are not marked for tense. You cannot tell - just by looking at a verb form without context - when the action occurs."
Re: Ezekiel 28 and Steve's Reasoning
Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:55 pm
by dizerner
It seems clear to me that Ezekiel 28:1-10 is addressed to the man, the king of Tyre, and verses 11-19 are prophetically speaking to the demonic power controlling the man, that is, Satan himself. We can safely assume the verbs should be past tense from verse 15, "until the day iniquity was found in you," as the entire prophecy is about a moment of betrayal, and the consequences of it.