Excorcism or "Deliverance" done today among evangelicals to my very limited knowledge involves a group of people during a lengthy period of time. This doesn't seem to me to follow the biblical example, perhaps I'm wrong?
Having a group of people standing around you, talking to demons etc. might convince a person they had a demon, then having them earnestly speak against the demon and lovingly affirm the afflicted person seems to be a method of socio-psychological manipulation. Does anybody know different?
God Bless,
Bud
Deliverance
Deliverance
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Hi Bud,
It is true that much that goes on under the name of "deliverance ministry" has no biblical precedent, and much of it is probably unscriptural, psychological manipulation. There is, for example, far too great eagerness with some who do this to diagnose the influence of demons when there may be no demon present at all.
On the other hand, demonization seems to have been a very common phenomenon in the biblical world, and we have no reason to doubt that it would be similarly common in any age, including our own—although it seems to be less common in those parts of the world where the Gospel has been influential. Christians would be negligent not to consider the possibility of demonization at all.
It is true that nthe normative exorcism in scripture was instantaneous, and not drawn out, but there is at least one recorded case in which Christ, after commanding the demons to come out, conversed with the demons a bit before they were actually expelled (Mark.5:1ff). Mark 5:8 reads (in Greek): "For [Jesus] was saying to him, 'Come out spirit!'" suggesting that Jesus was giving these commands prior to His conversation with the demons recorded in the following verses.
Since the Bible gives very limited information about demonization and exorcism, it is likely that a few things occurred in connection with this that are not recorded—some of which might be among the "extra-biblical" actions of modern deliverance ministers. Though I am skeptical of the whole idea of "deliverance ministers," I would only be critical of those procedures that seem to be unbiblical.
It is true that much that goes on under the name of "deliverance ministry" has no biblical precedent, and much of it is probably unscriptural, psychological manipulation. There is, for example, far too great eagerness with some who do this to diagnose the influence of demons when there may be no demon present at all.
On the other hand, demonization seems to have been a very common phenomenon in the biblical world, and we have no reason to doubt that it would be similarly common in any age, including our own—although it seems to be less common in those parts of the world where the Gospel has been influential. Christians would be negligent not to consider the possibility of demonization at all.
It is true that nthe normative exorcism in scripture was instantaneous, and not drawn out, but there is at least one recorded case in which Christ, after commanding the demons to come out, conversed with the demons a bit before they were actually expelled (Mark.5:1ff). Mark 5:8 reads (in Greek): "For [Jesus] was saying to him, 'Come out spirit!'" suggesting that Jesus was giving these commands prior to His conversation with the demons recorded in the following verses.
Since the Bible gives very limited information about demonization and exorcism, it is likely that a few things occurred in connection with this that are not recorded—some of which might be among the "extra-biblical" actions of modern deliverance ministers. Though I am skeptical of the whole idea of "deliverance ministers," I would only be critical of those procedures that seem to be unbiblical.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
Hello Steve,
A common concept held by many modern deliverance ministers (DM) is 'no garbage, no flies'. Meaning, the person allegedly infested by demons has first to repent of his sins (unforgiveness, idolatry, hidden sins, sins of ancestors or parents, occultic involvement, etc.) before the demons are renounced/rebuked/commanded to leave. This is supposed to take away any legal ground for the demons to operate in the person's life. Once this is done, the demons can be commanded to leave and will eventually obey since theoretically, they have no legal right to stay against the person's will. These DMs say that demons are also subject to the God-ordained universal law of free-will and thus, cannot infest a person against his will unless the person himself invites them in or does something that would give them legal ground to operate. This legal ground, they say, is based on God's permission/mandate given to the 'torturers' to punish the unforgiven servant in the parable of the unmerciful servant. They would also say that even without repentance, demons can be commanded to leave in the name of Jesus but, as flies go back to where there is garbage, the demons will just return.
I witnessed 2 cases of deliverance wherein the demons manifested (spoke through the person and changed his countenance) during the repentance and renunciation part, appearing as if they are resisting attempts to take away their legal grounds, so to speak.
Would you view this principle as scriptural? The Lord didn't seem to require the demonized to repent prior to the rebuke. Do you think repentance was an implied requirement? Or could Jesus have bypassed the repentance portion since he is THE LORD and could unilaterally bestow forgiveness anyway? Or could the Lord just go straight to the rebuke and casting out portion since he is the 'Stronger Man' who binds the strong man?
I know much of the above are extra-biblical. But since you are the better exposed to the whole counsel of the Word, I would really appreciate your insights.
-------------------------------------------
Justified, being sanctified and will be glorified IN HIM,
Richard A.
A common concept held by many modern deliverance ministers (DM) is 'no garbage, no flies'. Meaning, the person allegedly infested by demons has first to repent of his sins (unforgiveness, idolatry, hidden sins, sins of ancestors or parents, occultic involvement, etc.) before the demons are renounced/rebuked/commanded to leave. This is supposed to take away any legal ground for the demons to operate in the person's life. Once this is done, the demons can be commanded to leave and will eventually obey since theoretically, they have no legal right to stay against the person's will. These DMs say that demons are also subject to the God-ordained universal law of free-will and thus, cannot infest a person against his will unless the person himself invites them in or does something that would give them legal ground to operate. This legal ground, they say, is based on God's permission/mandate given to the 'torturers' to punish the unforgiven servant in the parable of the unmerciful servant. They would also say that even without repentance, demons can be commanded to leave in the name of Jesus but, as flies go back to where there is garbage, the demons will just return.
I witnessed 2 cases of deliverance wherein the demons manifested (spoke through the person and changed his countenance) during the repentance and renunciation part, appearing as if they are resisting attempts to take away their legal grounds, so to speak.
Would you view this principle as scriptural? The Lord didn't seem to require the demonized to repent prior to the rebuke. Do you think repentance was an implied requirement? Or could Jesus have bypassed the repentance portion since he is THE LORD and could unilaterally bestow forgiveness anyway? Or could the Lord just go straight to the rebuke and casting out portion since he is the 'Stronger Man' who binds the strong man?
I know much of the above are extra-biblical. But since you are the better exposed to the whole counsel of the Word, I would really appreciate your insights.
-------------------------------------------
Justified, being sanctified and will be glorified IN HIM,
Richard A.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Hi Richard,
You have done an excellent job of summarizing the practices of DM's and I have been aware of all of these teachings and practices, though I have never been involved with those who do this kind of thing frequently. I have only rarely had occasion to cast out demons, but I believe the church needs to understand this phenomenon better so as to minister to those who can not be helped in any other way.
There is no example in scripture of Christ calling the demonized to repent or to forgive others—though these things were a part of His general message to all, and may have been included in some of His unrecorded conversations with the afflicted, for all we know. That one passage in Matthew 18:32-35, about the "torturers," does indeed strike me as relevant to this question.
Simon the sorcerer was probably demonized (unless he was a mere charlatan, though the Bible seems to take his magical powers at face value). We do not read of him ever being "delivered" (and subsequent church history suggests that he was not). However, Peter did call upon him to repent (Acts 8:22-23), which may have been viewed by Peter as a prerequisite for casting the demons out of him. We cannot say for sure.
Most of what the DM's say about "legal ground" and "free will" (with reference to demonization) is, as you say, extra-biblical. However, I do not find it to be contrary to any plain statements of scripture, and it may be that it can be deduced from scripture or from experience.
I was raised under teaching that ridiculed DM's because so much of what they affirm is based on "experience," rather than on direct biblical statements. I certainly agree that the plain teaching of scripture carries greater authority than does mere experience, but where scripture is silent, I do not see why consistent, widespread experiences cannot be accepted as data for seeking to understand a mysterious subject.
There is, for example, no biblical precedent for what we call an "altar call," but this does not make such things wrong. There is no biblical warrant for indoor baptisms, but if experience has shown that indoor baptistries work best for many modern churches, I can see no reason to criticize.
More to the point, we have very little data in scripture to explain the mysterious phenomena of demonization and exorcism. If we are not permitted to learn anything about these subjects from experience in the field, then we must remain very ignorant indeed.
The Bible speaks of sickness and healing only anecdotally (just as it does of demonization and deliverance). Yet we do not criticize doctors or others who have, by experience, learned a great deal about how people catch diseases or about accurate diagnosis, or even about the care of sick patients. Germs are to disease as demons are to demonization. If we can learn much about the germs that cause disease from research, I do not see why we should not be prepared to receive similar insight into demons from research and field experience.
Of course, we can be misled by misinterpreting experiences (just as we can be misled by misinterpreting scripture!). While we should remain open to receiving information that is gleaned from experience, we have every reason to be cautious about formulating doctrines bases upon every report of a DM. Not all who have an experience to relate are capable of drawing universal truths or principles from their experiences. However, I, for one, am interested in people's experiences in this area. I don't think we can have too much reliable data when we are trying to get a grasp of a difficult subject.
For this reason, in addition to my thorough studies of the scriptures on this topic, I have for a long time collected anecdotal information, especially from the mission field. There is an old book called "Demon Experiences in Many Lands" [Moody, 1960] that has thirty chapters by thirty missionaries from around the world, relating their encounters with demonized individuals. Many of these missionaries had no assumptions about demon possession prior to their encounters on the field.
A very striking case of demonization occurred in the nineteenth century, in Germany, where a pastor named Johann Christoph Blumhardt struggled with a demonized girl in his flock for nearly two years. This remarkable story is published in a hard-to-find booklet called "Blumhardt's Battle." This man was a very sober, humble, biblically-oriented pastor, and later became quite well-known throughout Europe, influencing Karl Barth, Dietrich Bonhoffer, and others—but his notoriety began with this struggle against very powerful and malicious demons. The deliverance, when it finally came, was dramatic and permanent.
I have also found the book "Demon Possession" by John Nevius very helpful. Nevius was a Presbyterian missionary to China in the 1800's, who did not believe in demonic possession until he went to the field. His informative book is based upon his own experiences as well as those of many other missionaries whom he surveyed and interviewed on the topic.
One thing I find interesting about the experiences of which I have read in these books is the absence of "barf bags" and other trappings of many modern DM's. In fact, I don't recall any of these cases requiring counseling, repentance or forgivenness prior to deliverance. However, I would not rule out the value of some of these things if others have found them to be useful in ministering to others.
My main objections to many DM's are:
1. The tendency of some to "overdiagnose"—seeing every abnormality as evidence of demonization;
2. The tendency of some to sensationalize the ministry. Jesus seemed to keep His exorcisms as private and out of the public view as possible (Mark 9:25), though He certainly would work an exorcism publicly when it could not be avoided (Mark 1:23-25).
3. The tendency of some to routinely conduct lengthy interviews with the demons. I understand the temptation to do this, since we are naturally curious to learn more about them from their own mouths, but there is no evidence that Jesus or the apostles engaged in such conversations ordinarily, and the practice may simply give the demons a platform to communicate to anyone who happens to be present. Jesus often told the demons to "shut up!" and normally did not let them speak (Mark 1:34).
Whatever the DM's may have discovered about the value of repentance, renunciation or forgivenness prior to deliverance cannot be objected to on biblical grounds. The main thing to remember is that Jesus never reduced any of His miraculous actions to a duplicatable system, and it is a mistake to think that all cases of demonization can be remedied by following some pat procedure. Jesus is the Victor. It is Jesus, not any procedure or system that we may come up with, that the demons must respect. We must depend on the authority of His Name alone or the demons may have us for lunch (cf. Acts 19:15-16).
You have done an excellent job of summarizing the practices of DM's and I have been aware of all of these teachings and practices, though I have never been involved with those who do this kind of thing frequently. I have only rarely had occasion to cast out demons, but I believe the church needs to understand this phenomenon better so as to minister to those who can not be helped in any other way.
There is no example in scripture of Christ calling the demonized to repent or to forgive others—though these things were a part of His general message to all, and may have been included in some of His unrecorded conversations with the afflicted, for all we know. That one passage in Matthew 18:32-35, about the "torturers," does indeed strike me as relevant to this question.
Simon the sorcerer was probably demonized (unless he was a mere charlatan, though the Bible seems to take his magical powers at face value). We do not read of him ever being "delivered" (and subsequent church history suggests that he was not). However, Peter did call upon him to repent (Acts 8:22-23), which may have been viewed by Peter as a prerequisite for casting the demons out of him. We cannot say for sure.
Most of what the DM's say about "legal ground" and "free will" (with reference to demonization) is, as you say, extra-biblical. However, I do not find it to be contrary to any plain statements of scripture, and it may be that it can be deduced from scripture or from experience.
I was raised under teaching that ridiculed DM's because so much of what they affirm is based on "experience," rather than on direct biblical statements. I certainly agree that the plain teaching of scripture carries greater authority than does mere experience, but where scripture is silent, I do not see why consistent, widespread experiences cannot be accepted as data for seeking to understand a mysterious subject.
There is, for example, no biblical precedent for what we call an "altar call," but this does not make such things wrong. There is no biblical warrant for indoor baptisms, but if experience has shown that indoor baptistries work best for many modern churches, I can see no reason to criticize.
More to the point, we have very little data in scripture to explain the mysterious phenomena of demonization and exorcism. If we are not permitted to learn anything about these subjects from experience in the field, then we must remain very ignorant indeed.
The Bible speaks of sickness and healing only anecdotally (just as it does of demonization and deliverance). Yet we do not criticize doctors or others who have, by experience, learned a great deal about how people catch diseases or about accurate diagnosis, or even about the care of sick patients. Germs are to disease as demons are to demonization. If we can learn much about the germs that cause disease from research, I do not see why we should not be prepared to receive similar insight into demons from research and field experience.
Of course, we can be misled by misinterpreting experiences (just as we can be misled by misinterpreting scripture!). While we should remain open to receiving information that is gleaned from experience, we have every reason to be cautious about formulating doctrines bases upon every report of a DM. Not all who have an experience to relate are capable of drawing universal truths or principles from their experiences. However, I, for one, am interested in people's experiences in this area. I don't think we can have too much reliable data when we are trying to get a grasp of a difficult subject.
For this reason, in addition to my thorough studies of the scriptures on this topic, I have for a long time collected anecdotal information, especially from the mission field. There is an old book called "Demon Experiences in Many Lands" [Moody, 1960] that has thirty chapters by thirty missionaries from around the world, relating their encounters with demonized individuals. Many of these missionaries had no assumptions about demon possession prior to their encounters on the field.
A very striking case of demonization occurred in the nineteenth century, in Germany, where a pastor named Johann Christoph Blumhardt struggled with a demonized girl in his flock for nearly two years. This remarkable story is published in a hard-to-find booklet called "Blumhardt's Battle." This man was a very sober, humble, biblically-oriented pastor, and later became quite well-known throughout Europe, influencing Karl Barth, Dietrich Bonhoffer, and others—but his notoriety began with this struggle against very powerful and malicious demons. The deliverance, when it finally came, was dramatic and permanent.
I have also found the book "Demon Possession" by John Nevius very helpful. Nevius was a Presbyterian missionary to China in the 1800's, who did not believe in demonic possession until he went to the field. His informative book is based upon his own experiences as well as those of many other missionaries whom he surveyed and interviewed on the topic.
One thing I find interesting about the experiences of which I have read in these books is the absence of "barf bags" and other trappings of many modern DM's. In fact, I don't recall any of these cases requiring counseling, repentance or forgivenness prior to deliverance. However, I would not rule out the value of some of these things if others have found them to be useful in ministering to others.
My main objections to many DM's are:
1. The tendency of some to "overdiagnose"—seeing every abnormality as evidence of demonization;
2. The tendency of some to sensationalize the ministry. Jesus seemed to keep His exorcisms as private and out of the public view as possible (Mark 9:25), though He certainly would work an exorcism publicly when it could not be avoided (Mark 1:23-25).
3. The tendency of some to routinely conduct lengthy interviews with the demons. I understand the temptation to do this, since we are naturally curious to learn more about them from their own mouths, but there is no evidence that Jesus or the apostles engaged in such conversations ordinarily, and the practice may simply give the demons a platform to communicate to anyone who happens to be present. Jesus often told the demons to "shut up!" and normally did not let them speak (Mark 1:34).
Whatever the DM's may have discovered about the value of repentance, renunciation or forgivenness prior to deliverance cannot be objected to on biblical grounds. The main thing to remember is that Jesus never reduced any of His miraculous actions to a duplicatable system, and it is a mistake to think that all cases of demonization can be remedied by following some pat procedure. Jesus is the Victor. It is Jesus, not any procedure or system that we may come up with, that the demons must respect. We must depend on the authority of His Name alone or the demons may have us for lunch (cf. Acts 19:15-16).
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
-
_Priestly1
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:47 pm
- Location: McMinnville, Oregon USA
Demonization of the Saints.
Hi Steve! I just had to put my two sense worth in.
In Pentacostalism, NeoPentacostalism and the various Charismatic Movements since the early 1900s till now, there has been a view that Christians can deliver Christians from demonic possession, oppression and curses! Now, I may step on toes here...but this is voodoo and gypsy spirituality..not Biblical or Historic Christian spirituality.
These folks cite passages of demonization among the lost sheep of Israel, which Messiah came to release from their bondage and deliver into the Kingdom of Light. Notice all the demonizations cited are concerning those lost seeking salvation....not those who are follows that have been redeemed by Faith in Messiah. Nowhere in Acts or in the Epistles do we find Saints casting out devils or removing curses from fellow Saints...not one example. They even cite Saul as an example..but he was an Apostate being tormented by demons on God's authority. So that example is out.
There is a principle in Scripture which is quite clear. Darkness cannot exist with Light, and God cannot dwell with that which is not set apart, consecrated and made holy. A Saint is reborn, regenerated, washed, consecrated and filled by the Spirit of God. A human tabernacle cannot have three occupants: the spirit of man, the Spirit of God and an unclean demonic spirit. One is either in the Kingdom of Light or in the Kingdom of Darkness...one cannot have Light and Darkness within him at the same time. For Greater is God who inhabits you, than Satan who inhabits the world. It is a simple and easy principle taught throughout the OT and the NT. Yet it is denied by many modern "spirit filled" Christians. As for curses, the same principle applies. Either Christ has redeemed you from the power of the Devil and the dominion of his kingdom of darkness, or he is a weakling and a fraud. Can Satan be allowed by God to test your metal like Job? Oh Yes! Is that allowed because of a Curse, lack of Faith or Secret Sin? Nope. It is to purify, to gain self knowledge, to soften and to reveal God's strength in your weakness and hardship. Sometimes hardship is a divine chastisement to cause you to return to the right path.
It seems to me that this type of "Charismania" is a mechanism for evangelistic control of fearful folk, empowers false prophets, fake exorcists, bogus deliverance ministries and such ilk. I have witnessed a lot of such exorcisms and deliverance meetings in my years within Pentacostal-Charismatic Movements (1972 - 1994). Sadly, when younger I participated in many! I have witness the same psychological hocus pocus among the Rajneeshees and other groups! Same metaphysical principles and practices too. I can honestly say I have never witnessed a true healing, deliverance or exorcism from any of them. Oh, there are plenty of urban legends and second hand reports...even folks who say they had the spirit of lust which caused them to be addicted to Drugs, Pornography, Promiscuity, Adultery, Rock Music and even Catholicism!!!
Now in this age if Victocracy (Self rule of Victims), no one takes personal responsibility for their sinful actions and the life of death they place you in. "The Devil Made Me Do It!" and not "What would Jesus Do?" is the name of this game.
Now I have seen very scary video footage of authentically verified and performed exorcisms of unbelievers by Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox ministers in the mission fields of Africa, Asia and right here in America. I have seen preternatural strength, demonic voices from open foaming mouths and even curses in known languages that are foreign to the possessed victim. I have not been at a real exorcism, but I believe I have sat with, spoken to and witnesses a true demoniac...she was an unbeliever. She began to speak about my dead mother with details only I knew, and spoke of her familiar which resided within her. Her eyes would go from a light blue when she was "normal", but became as black as onyx when "possessed"....I am sure it was not schitzophrenia or Multiple personality disorder. She was given over and new it. My Wife and Friends all witnessed this confrontation she had with me. Lets just say, she wasn't seeking God and it was seeking to mess with me..so I began to pray and she became very angry and spoke in tongues...mocking me? I don't know. But the area around her got cold as a freezer and it was August in McMinnville. I felt chilled as did those who came close to her. She then rolled her eyes up, screamed at us all and ran out of the home wildly. I felt like a failure, but I wasn't trying to exorcise her. I was dumbfounded. Still am. It freaked us all out. So yes Virginia, there is demonization. But Santa Claus and Christians being possessed, oppressed and victims of curses is false. I don't see it in Scripture, nor is it Theologically compatible with Historic Christian Faith and Practice.
In Messiah,
Ken Huffman
PS
No she never levitated, spewed split pea soup or physically changed into a beast. Would I engage such a person again? yes, and I would bring a few assistance to begin exorcism...but I was unfamiliar with such things back in 1993. Anyone who says such things do not chill the blood is goofy...It still sends chills down my spine. I hope she has been delivered and is a Christian now. I don't know.
In Pentacostalism, NeoPentacostalism and the various Charismatic Movements since the early 1900s till now, there has been a view that Christians can deliver Christians from demonic possession, oppression and curses! Now, I may step on toes here...but this is voodoo and gypsy spirituality..not Biblical or Historic Christian spirituality.
These folks cite passages of demonization among the lost sheep of Israel, which Messiah came to release from their bondage and deliver into the Kingdom of Light. Notice all the demonizations cited are concerning those lost seeking salvation....not those who are follows that have been redeemed by Faith in Messiah. Nowhere in Acts or in the Epistles do we find Saints casting out devils or removing curses from fellow Saints...not one example. They even cite Saul as an example..but he was an Apostate being tormented by demons on God's authority. So that example is out.
There is a principle in Scripture which is quite clear. Darkness cannot exist with Light, and God cannot dwell with that which is not set apart, consecrated and made holy. A Saint is reborn, regenerated, washed, consecrated and filled by the Spirit of God. A human tabernacle cannot have three occupants: the spirit of man, the Spirit of God and an unclean demonic spirit. One is either in the Kingdom of Light or in the Kingdom of Darkness...one cannot have Light and Darkness within him at the same time. For Greater is God who inhabits you, than Satan who inhabits the world. It is a simple and easy principle taught throughout the OT and the NT. Yet it is denied by many modern "spirit filled" Christians. As for curses, the same principle applies. Either Christ has redeemed you from the power of the Devil and the dominion of his kingdom of darkness, or he is a weakling and a fraud. Can Satan be allowed by God to test your metal like Job? Oh Yes! Is that allowed because of a Curse, lack of Faith or Secret Sin? Nope. It is to purify, to gain self knowledge, to soften and to reveal God's strength in your weakness and hardship. Sometimes hardship is a divine chastisement to cause you to return to the right path.
It seems to me that this type of "Charismania" is a mechanism for evangelistic control of fearful folk, empowers false prophets, fake exorcists, bogus deliverance ministries and such ilk. I have witnessed a lot of such exorcisms and deliverance meetings in my years within Pentacostal-Charismatic Movements (1972 - 1994). Sadly, when younger I participated in many! I have witness the same psychological hocus pocus among the Rajneeshees and other groups! Same metaphysical principles and practices too. I can honestly say I have never witnessed a true healing, deliverance or exorcism from any of them. Oh, there are plenty of urban legends and second hand reports...even folks who say they had the spirit of lust which caused them to be addicted to Drugs, Pornography, Promiscuity, Adultery, Rock Music and even Catholicism!!!
Now in this age if Victocracy (Self rule of Victims), no one takes personal responsibility for their sinful actions and the life of death they place you in. "The Devil Made Me Do It!" and not "What would Jesus Do?" is the name of this game.
Now I have seen very scary video footage of authentically verified and performed exorcisms of unbelievers by Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox ministers in the mission fields of Africa, Asia and right here in America. I have seen preternatural strength, demonic voices from open foaming mouths and even curses in known languages that are foreign to the possessed victim. I have not been at a real exorcism, but I believe I have sat with, spoken to and witnesses a true demoniac...she was an unbeliever. She began to speak about my dead mother with details only I knew, and spoke of her familiar which resided within her. Her eyes would go from a light blue when she was "normal", but became as black as onyx when "possessed"....I am sure it was not schitzophrenia or Multiple personality disorder. She was given over and new it. My Wife and Friends all witnessed this confrontation she had with me. Lets just say, she wasn't seeking God and it was seeking to mess with me..so I began to pray and she became very angry and spoke in tongues...mocking me? I don't know. But the area around her got cold as a freezer and it was August in McMinnville. I felt chilled as did those who came close to her. She then rolled her eyes up, screamed at us all and ran out of the home wildly. I felt like a failure, but I wasn't trying to exorcise her. I was dumbfounded. Still am. It freaked us all out. So yes Virginia, there is demonization. But Santa Claus and Christians being possessed, oppressed and victims of curses is false. I don't see it in Scripture, nor is it Theologically compatible with Historic Christian Faith and Practice.
In Messiah,
Ken Huffman
PS
No she never levitated, spewed split pea soup or physically changed into a beast. Would I engage such a person again? yes, and I would bring a few assistance to begin exorcism...but I was unfamiliar with such things back in 1993. Anyone who says such things do not chill the blood is goofy...It still sends chills down my spine. I hope she has been delivered and is a Christian now. I don't know.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason: