How Important is Our Brain as a Christian?

[darinhouston]

If the Gospel is not simple enough to be understood by those of a simple mind then God has not provided for the salvation of all mankind.

What is mandatory to know in order to be saved? We read in the scriptures of the conversion of thousands (Day of Pentecost) and then just one (the Ethiopian eunuch). There was no New Testament, and without doubt none of them would ever see one. What they needed to know was simple.

What is essential to a saving belief in the Lord and understanding what is necessary to follow him is certainly simple enough to be understood by any reading in almost any translation. As Dwight indicated, however, that is not the end of learning and all else is not always that simple.

[Homer]

Darin and Dwight,

I do not disagree with either of your replies, however, we must be careful about engaging in mean spirited "word wars" of which I haven't always been innocent.

I would ask both of you to explain what practical distinction you see in the various beliefs concerning the Trinity that have been expressed here? Perhaps the most godly man I ever knew was an Arian.

[dwight92070]

Darin and Dwight,

I do not disagree with either of your replies, however, we must be careful about engaging in mean spirited "word wars" of which I haven't always been innocent.

I would ask both of you to explain what practical distinction you see in the various beliefs concerning the Trinity that have been expressed here? Perhaps the most godly man I ever knew was an Arian.

Some beliefs about the Trinity are supported with scriptural evidence - others are not, they are just man's thoughts. "Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." So we live on the truth of the word of God. We receive no life from the word of man. It doesn't get more practical than that.

[darinhouston]

Darin and Dwight,

I do not disagree with either of your replies, however, we must be careful about engaging in mean spirited "word wars" of which I haven't always been innocent.

I would ask both of you to explain what practical distinction you see in the various beliefs concerning the Trinity that have been expressed here? Perhaps the most godly man I ever knew was an Arian.

I think it can have a profound impact on who you direct your prayers to, who you are giving glory to - but more important than being "Right" about it is avoiding being wrong. If Jesus is not God in the primary sense we use the word, then ascribing that to him seems like something to be avoided. Going no further than scripture strictly provides for something like that seems to ensure that the Father receives all the glory he deserves.

I do think that it changes also the way we view the life of Christ and the example he lived. If he was God, then his life was not the same model for us as it would be if he were truly (and only) human. It changes a number of things such as the atonement as well.

There are many more reasons not to believe something that isn't true - but this is what comes to mind at the moment. Being agnostic about it would seem to have little risk. Being wrong dogmatically about either position and holding it as dogma in your mind and heart seems risky. Refusing to see those who believe differently as true brethren and treating them as heretics and so forth seems risky as well.

[darinhouston]

Darin and Dwight,

I do not disagree with either of your replies, however, we must be careful about engaging in mean spirited "word wars" of which I haven't always been innocent.

I would ask both of you to explain what practical distinction you see in the various beliefs concerning the Trinity that have been expressed here? Perhaps the most godly man I ever knew was an Arian.

Here is a quick article expressing it better than I could - if it's not true, consider also many Jews have rejected Christ as their Messiah because they can't get over the deity claims....

Trinitarian or Unitarian: Does it really matter?

For hundreds of years most Christians have proclaimed to the world that Jesus Christ is “God.” They have told us that God exists co-equally in three persons. They say the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all exist in “one God.” Many even say that those who don’t believe that Jesus is God are not saved.

The Bible says that “if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Rom. 10:9).

For many non-Christians, the idea of a 3-in-1 God is very confusing and unbiblical. Take, for example, Jews and Muslims. Both are monotheistic, which means they believe in “one” God. Most of them won’t even consider believing in a God that exists in “three persons,” because they reason that 1 + 1 + 1 does not equal one God.

Millions of Jews and Muslims have completely denied Jesus as their Lord, because of the teaching that he is God, and they simply cannot accept a Triune God.

So the concern is…

How many more people would accept Jesus Christ as their Lord (and be saved) if he were not presented to them as the “second member of the Trinity”?
Possibly millions? Surely this doctrine has confused and turned away a countless number of people since it was created more than 1,500 years ago. How sad to think that the idea of the Trinity has caused many to reject or even walk away from our Lord.

What honors Jesus more?

1. That he was God in human flesh – a “Godman,” who didn’t truly have free will, who couldn’t have sinned; “God the Son,” who always did the will of God the Father and always did what was right; “God the Son,” who died (How could God die?) for the sins of all mankind; “God the Son” come down from Heaven clothed in human flesh.

Or…

2. That Jesus was a flesh and blood human being who had free will, who could have sinned, but chose not to; the Son of God who laid down his life for his brothers and sisters; a man who could have disobeyed God’s plan for him, but who loved us so much that he chose to do God’s will and save us all; a man, who because of his accomplishments, was promoted to the right hand of God, made Lord over Heaven and Earth, and is now “functionally equal” with his God and Father.

For a human being with free will to never sin is the greatest accomplishment of all time. The idea that he is God greatly diminishes the magnitude of his heroism on our behalf.

Is Jesus God? Some say this argument is like “splitting hairs,” no big deal. But we say it’s one of the biggest attacks the Enemy has ever thrown at God’s people.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

If we were the Enemy, and knowing God and Jesus Christ were the way to eternal life, we wouldn’t want people to know them. We would try to paint a different picture of God and a different picture of Jesus than what the Bible actually says. It is our belief that the primary attack of the Enemy has been an assault on the Word of God that began the moment it left the inspired hands that wrote it.

What a glorious opportunity we have right now to learn and proclaim the simple and liberating truth that “Jesus is Lord,” and that he will mentor each of us in the art of trusting our heavenly Father like he did.

[dwight92070]

Darin and Dwight,

I do not disagree with either of your replies, however, we must be careful about engaging in mean spirited "word wars" of which I haven't always been innocent.

I would ask both of you to explain what practical distinction you see in the various beliefs concerning the Trinity that have been expressed here? Perhaps the most godly man I ever knew was an Arian.

Here is a quick article expressing it better than I could - if it's not true, consider also many Jews have rejected Christ as their Messiah because they can't get over the deity claims....

Trinitarian or Unitarian: Does it really matter?

For hundreds of years most Christians have proclaimed to the world that Jesus Christ is “God.” They have told us that God exists co-equally in three persons. They say the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all exist in “one God.” Many even say that those who don’t believe that Jesus is God are not saved.

The Bible says that “if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Rom. 10:9).

For many non-Christians, the idea of a 3-in-1 God is very confusing and unbiblical. Take, for example, Jews and Muslims. Both are monotheistic, which means they believe in “one” God. Most of them won’t even consider believing in a God that exists in “three persons,” because they reason that 1 + 1 + 1 does not equal one God.

Millions of Jews and Muslims have completely denied Jesus as their Lord, because of the teaching that he is God, and they simply cannot accept a Triune God.

Dwight - I can believe that may be true for some, maybe even many, Jews and Muslims, but there's no way of knowing that "millions" of them have rejected Jesus specifically because of the Triune God doctrine. Also remember that the majority of the Jews who lived during His lifetime, saw and heard Him, and even saw many of His miracles STILL rejected Jesus. Even after He returned to heaven, when the apostles were preaching, it appears that the majority of the Jews were STILL rejecting Jesus. In fact, we know that the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, and the Jews occurred specifically because they, by and large, rejected their Messiah. There are several recorded instances where Jesus claims equality with God, in one way or another, and the Jews are ready to stone Him. So it appears to be true that that was a stumbling block for many Jews. But if Jesus is God, and the Trinity is a fact, should we cover up that truth, so that millions more can be saved? Doesn't the Bible tell us to not lie?

So the concern is…

How many more people would accept Jesus Christ as their Lord (and be saved) if he were not presented to them as the “second member of the Trinity”?
Possibly millions? Surely this doctrine has confused and turned away a countless number of people since it was created more than 1,500 years ago. How sad to think that the idea of the Trinity has caused many to reject or even walk away from our Lord.

Dwight - So let's distort and cover up the truth, so more people will be saved. Or let's even convince ourselves that there is no such thing as a Trinity, so that we can make the gospel more attractive, without bothering our conscience.

What honors Jesus more?
Dwight - The TRUTH

1. That he was God in human flesh – a “Godman,” who didn’t truly have free will, who couldn’t have sinned; “God the Son,” who always did the will of God the Father and always did what was right; “God the Son,” who died (How could God die?) for the sins of all mankind; “God the Son” come down from Heaven clothed in human flesh.

Dwight - He DID have free will and He CHOSE to freely submit to His Father's will. He COULD have sinned or else He was never truly tempted. Again, He CHOSE not to sin. How could God die? I don't know, but that doesn't change the fact that "all the fullness of Deity" dwelled in Him bodily. God knows.

Or…

2. That Jesus was a flesh and blood human being who had free will, who could have sinned, but chose not to; the Son of God who laid down his life for his brothers and sisters; a man who could have disobeyed God’s plan for him, but who loved us so much that he chose to do God’s will and save us all;

Dwight - All of that is true PLUS He was God in the flesh. The Word became flesh and dwelled among us.

a man, who because of his accomplishments, was promoted to the right hand of God, made Lord over Heaven and Earth, and is now “functionally equal” with his God and Father.

Dwight - Now we're getting into fiction here. He was already Lord at His birth (Luke 2:11). He was already equal with God (John 5:18). It does not say He was "functionally equal".

For a human being with free will to never sin is the greatest accomplishment of all time. The idea that he is God greatly diminishes the magnitude of his heroism on our behalf.

Dwight - Not in the least. Greater love has no man than this, that he would lay down His life for us, which is what God did, in Jesus.

Is Jesus God? Some say this argument is like “splitting hairs,” no big deal. But we say it’s one of the biggest attacks the Enemy has ever thrown at God’s people.

Dwight - Just the opposite. To deny His Deity is one of Satan's biggest attacks.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

If we were the Enemy, and knowing God and Jesus Christ were the way to eternal life, we wouldn’t want people to know them. We would try to paint a different picture of God and a different picture of Jesus than what the Bible actually says. It is our belief that the primary attack of the Enemy has been an assault on the Word of God that began the moment it left the inspired hands that wrote it.

Dwight - I agree with that 100%.

What a glorious opportunity we have right now to learn and proclaim the simple and liberating truth that “Jesus is Lord,” and that he will mentor each of us in the art of trusting our heavenly Father like he did.

Dwight - That's demoting Jesus. He is not our mentor. He is our God. We should proclaim to Jesus, as Thomas did: "My Lord and My God!"

Let's look at the fruit of the doctrine of denying the Deity of Jesus. Who is it that promotes this?

1. The Mormons and Joseph Smith - 1830
2. Jehovah's Witnesses and Charles Taze Russell - 1879 succeeded by Joseph F. Rutherford - 1917
3. Christian Science and Mary Baker Eddy - 1879
4. Armstrongism and Herbert W. Armstrong - 1934
5. Christadelphians and John Thomas 1864
6. The Unification Church and Sun Myung Moon 1954
7. The Unity School of Christianity and Charles and Myrtle Fillmore - 1889
8. Scientology - Dianetics and L. Ron Hubbard 1954

This is not an exhaustive list, but we know that these groups are filled with false, unbiblical teaching and practices. Is it just a coincidence that all these cults deny the Deity of Jesus? I don't think so. Satan's lies and distortions are much more prevalent with those who deny the Deity of Jesus, than those who accept that truth. The truth will make you free. The people in these cults are in bondage and in sin, they are not free.

[dwight92070]

One further correction to what Darin said: The Son of God did not just lay down His life for His brothers and sisters - He laid down His life for the entire world and all of humanity! John 1:29

[darinhouston]

a man, who because of his accomplishments, was promoted to the right hand of God, made Lord over Heaven and Earth, and is now “functionally equal” with his God and Father.

Dwight - Now we're getting into fiction here. He was already Lord at His birth (Luke 2:11). He was already equal with God (John 5:18). It does not say He was "functionally equal".

I don't really like the term "functionally equal" in that article but you misread John 5:18. You already know my position on this (and the prevailing conservative interpretation), but it was their perception (right or wrong, that's not the point) that he was making the claim of being equal with God that is stated there - not a direct teaching from the apostle that he was, in fact, equal (whether he was or not). Also, Lord is not the same thing as God.

[dwight92070]

a man, who because of his accomplishments, was promoted to the right hand of God, made Lord over Heaven and Earth, and is now “functionally equal” with his God and Father.

Dwight - Now we're getting into fiction here. He was already Lord at His birth (Luke 2:11). He was already equal with God (John 5:18). It does not say He was "functionally equal".

I don't really like the term "functionally equal" in that article but you misread John 5:18. You already know my position on this (and the prevailing conservative interpretation), but it was their perception (right or wrong, that's not the point) that he was making the claim of being equal with God that is stated there - not a direct teaching from the apostle that he was, in fact, equal (whether he was or not). Also, Lord is not the same thing as God.

John is writing here. He is stating the reasons that the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him - because He had done these things on the Sabbath. His answer was: "My Father has been working until now (i.e. even on the Sabbath), and I have been working (on the Sabbath)." That upset the Jews even more, because He called God His Father.
They wanted even more to kill Him now because He "not only broke the Sabbath" - He really DID BREAK the Sabbath, according to John. IT WAS NOT JUST THEIR PERCEPTION that He broke it, (He told the healed man to CARRY HIS BED on the Sabbath, which DID violate the Sabbath) "but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God"- likewise He really DID make Himself equal with God, according to John, IT WAS NOT JUST THEIR PERCEPTION that He did that.
Just like breaking the Sabbath was John's assessment of what Jesus actually did, so making Himself equal with God was also John's assessment of what Jesus actually did.

We also know that that is the correct interpretation, because there are several other places in John where he either states that Jesus is God, or the narrative tells us that He is. John 1:1,14,29 John 3:31; 5:21-27; John 6:38-40; John 20:28 and many more. John is intent on letting the reader know that Jesus is God.

[darinhouston]

a man, who because of his accomplishments, was promoted to the right hand of God, made Lord over Heaven and Earth, and is now “functionally equal” with his God and Father.

Dwight - Now we're getting into fiction here. He was already Lord at His birth (Luke 2:11). He was already equal with God (John 5:18). It does not say He was "functionally equal".

I don't really like the term "functionally equal" in that article but you misread John 5:18. You already know my position on this (and the prevailing conservative interpretation), but it was their perception (right or wrong, that's not the point) that he was making the claim of being equal with God that is stated there - not a direct teaching from the apostle that he was, in fact, equal (whether he was or not). Also, Lord is not the same thing as God.

John is writing here. He is stating the reasons that the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him - because He had done these things on the Sabbath. His answer was: "My Father has been working until now (i.e. even on the Sabbath), and I have been working (on the Sabbath)." That upset the Jews even more, because He called God His Father.
They wanted even more to kill Him now because He "not only broke the Sabbath" - He really DID BREAK the Sabbath, according to John. IT WAS NOT JUST THEIR PERCEPTION that He broke it, (He told the healed man to CARRY HIS BED on the Sabbath, which DID violate the Sabbath) "but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God"- likewise He really DID make Himself equal with God, according to John, IT WAS NOT JUST THEIR PERCEPTION that He did that.
Just like breaking the Sabbath was John's assessment of what Jesus actually did, so making Himself equal with God was also John's assessment of what Jesus actually did.

We also know that that is the correct interpretation, because there are several other places in John where he either states that Jesus is God, or the narrative tells us that He is. John 1:1,14,29 John 3:31; 5:21-27; John 6:38-40; John 20:28 and many more. John is intent on letting the reader know that Jesus is God.

I completely disagree but this is another topic for another thread.