What role do spirits play in sin?

Man, Sin, & Salvation
User avatar
RickC
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:55 am
Location: Piqua, Ohio

Re: What role do spirits play in sin?

Post by RickC » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:42 pm

Almost done, ;)
Sue wrote:I think that there is an analogy here, especially at the individual level. The way I see it, when we become born again we have been purchased, and as individuals belong to God. However, certain areas of our lives may still be occupied by the enemy (as with the Israelites). It’s up to us to clear the land by dispossessing the enemy, and take back territory that really belongs to God. Sort of like there being designated areas of our backyard that still have rocks and piles of rubbish, that we need to get rid of.

We know Jesus was without sin; and at the last Passover supper, He said:
Joh 14:30 I shall no longer speak many things with you, for the ruler of this world comes, and he has nothing in Me.

We however do yield to temptation and sin at various times; perhaps this is allowing the enemy to ‘have something in me’; I don’t see this as demonic possession, but as being influenced by the spirit of this world in some instances or particular areas, instead of living and walking by the Holy Spirit.
But we are expected to mature spiritually and allow the process of sanctification to take place and advance all the time.
I posted about it on the "old forum"...the fact that, even after believing {being a Christian} I continued to "struggle" with drinking. I'm sort of ashamed to talk about it but it's "my story." I knew the devil "had something in me" but just didn't seem able to stop drinking for more than several months.

I'm not into "Word of Faith." However, and even though I had "known" these verses since a long time ago; I read these verses and they "jumped out at me" about 3.5 years ago:
1 Cor 6 {NIV}
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


Someone had something wrong and it wasn't Saint Paul! So I "claimed" to be a Christian. Yet I was doing things that will prevent me from inheriting God's Kingdom? It didn't add up. Hmmmmm....

At the same time: I begged God for help and believed 1 Cor 6:9-11. I got sober and have had no desire to drink at all, other than a few temptations which quickly go when I "resist the devil and he will flee from you."

I also abandoned a lot of stuff I had been "taught" in Alcoholics Anonymous and treatment centers in the Navy {both as a patient and later, as staff}, Romans 12:2 "mind renewing."

At any rate, Sue, yes. We have an ongoing process of sanctification! Why I took so long to sober-up...well, I'm past that now and am sufficiently angry at Satan" [to him "I" say] "The LORD rebuke you!" {Jude 9}. I make it a point to witness to many AA folks, whether they're new to it or not, that Jesus Christ got me sober...and there's more to life than just not-drinking...God's Kingdom and eternal life is involved!
Theophilus also wrote:All of us are still under some control of Satan (as permitted by God) because until Jesus returns we will all suffer physical death.

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
We're going into eschatology here. Death, as an enemy of God, is the very last enemy to be destroyed. The devil doesn't have ultimate control over us and our deaths, as I'm sure you didn't mean to say he did. I suppose we can see death as a domain of the devil. At the same time, we've passed beyond the "old creation" though we haven't totally inherited the new {as with 1 Cor 6:9a, above}. I work nites & need a nap, Thanks :)

Theophilus
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:49 pm

Re: What role do spirits play in sin?

Post by Theophilus » Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:44 pm

Amen, brother! Thanks for sharing your experience. I too have called upon the LORD in my distress, and He has been merciful! We praise you LORD now and forever!

Until we are in glory with the Lord Jesus, sin is still crouching at the door. But through the washing and rebirth of the Holy Spirit, we can live supernatural lives and have mastery over sin. I tend to think the "sin living in me" mentioned by Paul is something in us (spiritual chains?) that was not part of the original design (it was good).

User avatar
RickC
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:55 am
Location: Piqua, Ohio

Re: What role do spirits play in sin?

Post by RickC » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:13 pm

Theophilus wrote:Amen, brother! Thanks for sharing your experience. I too have called upon the LORD in my distress, and He has been merciful! We praise you LORD now and forever!

Until we are in glory with the Lord Jesus, sin is still crouching at the door. But through the washing and rebirth of the Holy Spirit, we can live supernatural lives and have mastery over sin. I tend to think the "sin living in me" mentioned by Paul is something in us (spiritual chains?) that was not part of the original design (it was good).
Amen! to you too, Bro Theophilus, :)

You know what? {What?}
This thread's been good for me.
I'm a "thinking" kind of person, personality wise. Which isn't necessarily to say I'm all that "smart!" I can become so theoretical about stuff, theology included, that I may gloss over "where the rubber meets the road." In other words, I may not make that orthopraxis {"correct practise," aka, "living right"} connection. Our discussion so far has led me to considering things on a more practical level. E.g, I've been taking my theology to work with me lately...and meditating on the things we've talked about.

I came across some sub-topics {related to the thread} in my study time today. Inadvertently, but I found & bookmarked them. Must go now tho.

Btw, Paul on the "sin living in me" {Romans 7}; I think he was speaking about himself before conversion and/or to a Jew under the law {the famous "I" statements in the chapter}. A few of us posted about this on the old forum. Anyways, till next time, Jesus Reigns! :)

User avatar
RickC
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:55 am
Location: Piqua, Ohio

Re: What role do spirits play in sin?

Post by RickC » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:24 pm


Theophilus
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:49 pm

Re: What role do spirits play in sin?

Post by Theophilus » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:08 pm

Thanks, Rick. I'll try to take a look this weekend at your bookmarks.

Here's another verse that mentions a spirit at work "in" the disobedient. Seems like we are either walking in the Holy Spirit or the unholy spirit.

Eph 2 (NIV)
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Eph 2 (NASB)
1And you were (A)dead in your trespasses and sins,
2in which you (B)formerly walked according to the course of (C)this world, according to (D)the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in (E)the sons of disobedience.

User avatar
RickC
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:55 am
Location: Piqua, Ohio

Re: What role do spirits play in sin?

Post by RickC » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:29 pm

You're Welcome, Theophilus, :)

Edersheim gave us lot of info, no doubt. But his writing style is a tad difficult, e.g., he doesn't put Jewish texts he cites in quotes, etc. Some of the stuff he wrote was from the Babylonian Talmud, which I have online links to also {TONS of bookmarks} :shock: ...so many I can't find them sometimes!

Related to our study is {what I'll call}: "The Spiritual War Between God and the Devil." I've kind of gotten sidetracked on themes about the Messiah along these lines in Jewish, Jewish-Christian, Early Christian & extracanonical literature. As a result I'm working on some thread topics for under Eschatology {as a former dispensationalist, I've had a lot of learning to do)....

Thanks & have a good weekend, :)

User avatar
RickC
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:55 am
Location: Piqua, Ohio

Re: What role do spirits play in sin?

Post by RickC » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:47 am

I came across this quote inadvertently:
"There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race fallabout the devils....
One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an
excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors."

~ C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters, (p.3)

Theophilus
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:49 pm

Re: What role do spirits play in sin?

Post by Theophilus » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:29 pm

Nice quote from CS Lewis.

Prov 4 (NIV)
23 Above all else, guard your heart,
for it is the wellspring of life.

Mark 7
20He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

I'm not sure if it is intentional, but the following verses in Mark 7 deal with faith in Jesus and how He can make the blind see.

Mark 7:24-30 - Because of the faith of the Syrophoenician woman, her little daughter was delivered from a demon. In verse 25, "evil" spirit can be translated unclean spirit. This could possibly be related somehow to the use of unclean in verses 7:1-20.

Mark 7:31-36 - The healing of a deaf and mute man. These verses could indicate how Jesus unbinds that which is bound:
34He looked up to heaven and with a deep sigh said to him, "Ephphatha!" (which means, "Be opened!" ).

I'm not sure if there is a parallel to verses 17 and 18, where Jesus had called his disciples dull and not seeing.

17After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18"Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'?

User avatar
RickC
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:55 am
Location: Piqua, Ohio

Re: What role do spirits play in sin?

Post by RickC » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:52 pm

Hello Theophilus,

'Been a busy week here, but I'll look over what you wrote.

I've gotten "caught up" in a fairly heavy-duty reexamination of my eschatology {partial-pun intended by this partial-preterist}. Be back soon, God bless, :)

Post Reply

Return to “Anthropology, Hamartiology, Soteriology”