Hebrews: An imperfect Christ?

Post by **_Paidion** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:53 pm

I didn't respond Steve7150, because I can't see what you are getting at.

I can see how this passage could be interpreted to mean that Jesus claims Deity. However, even that seems doubtful. Otherwise why does He ask, "Why do you call me good?"

In any case, I fail to see "God the Son" anywhere in it. If you do see that, please spell it out for me.

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:16 pm

It comes down to the definition of "good." IMHO sinless is good and Jesus said "No one is GOOD (sinless?) except GOD."

So if Jesus is GOOD then by His own words is He not GOD?

What say you?

Post by **_Paidion** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:50 pm

If you believe Jesus is a God (thus concluding He is not The God) then how do you reconcile Is. 43:10; Is. 44:6-8; I Cor. 8:4-6; and Is. 45:5, 21-23?

Allyn, I don't find any of the Isaiah passages contradictory to my understanding, and I find that the Corinthian passage actually supports it.

However, before I show that this is the case, please explain the following in light of your belief that "Jesus and the Father are one and the same."

1. Many times Jesus prayed to the Father. If Jesus and the Father are “one and the same”, then to whom was He praying? To Himself?

2. But if Jesus were praying to Himself, then there is a problem. For He once prayed:

Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done. Luke 22:42

Jesus talked about His own will, and the will of the Father. He said, “NOT my will.” He yielded up His own will for that of the Father’s. So if Jesus were the same Individual as the Father, how could he have a will that differed from the Father’s? Did He have a split personality?

3. Here one of Jesus’ prayers in which He specifies Himself and the Father as TWO Individuals, not One:

This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

Two Individuals ---- the Father, the “only True God” and the One whom the Father sent — Jesus Christ. Jesus called the Father “The only true God”. He Himself is the divine Son of God — Deity, but is not “true God”. He is the One whom the True God sent.

4. The following passage also confirms this. It speaks of “one God” (that is one True God) and one Lord, Jesus Christ.

Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one...... for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. I Cor 8:4-6

5. In the following passage Jesus states about a clearly as possible that He and the Father are TWO:

The Pharisees then said to him, "You are bearing witness to yourself; your testimony is not true."

Jesus answered, ... “In your law it is written that the testimony of two people is true; I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me. John 8:13-18

It was written “the testimony of two people are true.” Jesus then identified two people who bore witness to Him ---- Himself, and the Father.