Romans 11;25-27

[Guest]

I've listened to the teaching of Israel on the tape download page and have really enjoyed it. In a conversation with my sister, this passage came up in regard to God dealing with the Israelite people seperately than The Church.

25Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers:[c] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

"The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
27"and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."
(ESV)

Her reasoning was that since Gentiles are still being saved today,the Gentiles have not fully come in. However after they do, Israel will be saved. This implies that God has 2 seperate plans for 2 seperate people.
I know there are other passages that point to 1 plan and 1 people.
Is there a better way to interperate this particular passage?

[Guest]

I've listened to the teaching of Israel on the tape download page and have really enjoyed it. In a conversation with my sister, this passage came up in regard to God dealing with the Israelite people seperately than The Church.

25Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers:[c] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

"The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
27"and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."
(ESV)

Her reasoning was that since Gentiles are still being saved today,the Gentiles have not fully come in. However after they do, Israel will be saved. This implies that God has 2 seperate plans for 2 seperate people.
I know there are other passages that point to 1 plan and 1 people.
Is there a better way to interperate this particular passage?

The problem with this interpretation is that it doesn't say "and then all Israel will be saved". It says "and so all Israel will be saved".

Paul is explaining the way Isreal is saved, believeing Jews + believing Gentiles = All Israel being saved. (Gentiles grafted in)

The view of your sister doesn't seem like it can be correct because that would mean that until the fullness of the Gentiles is complete that the Jews will be blinded. Unfortunately Paul says otherwise:

Rom 11:1 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.

To be correct, you sister would have to disagree with Paul here and instead say: "Yes, God has rejected His people. But only temporarily, until all the Gentiles come in, and then they will not be rejected anymore".

Paul is a believer, and he is part of Israel, but he didn't have to wait until the fullness of the Gentiles to come in before he became a believer.

I believe what Paul is saying is that the unbelieving Jews are blinded and the Gentiles that respond are being grafted onto Israel (the olive tree of Rom 11).

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened

EDIT:
Just wanted to clarify that it does say "a partial hardening has come upon Israel" not a complete hardening. This is why Paul could speak of himself as being saved. The part that is hardened are that way because they have already rejected God, so God has hardened them.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
Rom 9:31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
Rom 9:32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,
Rom 9:33 as it is written, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."

The Jews aren't hardened for no reason, they have rejected righteousness by faith and pursued it as if it were by works. But this doesn't mean there is not hope during the "church" age. Even Paul says:

2Co 3:12 Since we have such a hope, we are very bold,
2Co 3:13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.
2Co 3:14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
2Co 3:15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.
2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.

We don't have to wait until the "fulness of the Gentiles". They can turn now.

Rom 11:13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry
Rom 11:14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.

Again, Paul doesn't say: "They missed God's grace this time, but after all the Gentiles are saved they will get another shot." Instead Paul is trying to arouse and save some of them now.

Also:

Rom 11:30 Just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
Rom 11:31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

They now can recieve mercy, they don't have to wait!


"All Israel" includes the Gentiles!

Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
...
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility

Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God

[Guest]

Thank you sooo much Sean,

That makes so much more sense especially in the context and cross references. I've been rolling this thing over in my mind for 3 days!! I think that since my sister interperated that passage in the way she did that it just kinda stuck in my mind and I couldnt get it out!! The "fullness of the Gentiles" was the part that was tripping me up.
Another cross reference that I came across was Rom.9;6 ... 6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel...

Thanks for replying Sean,
this has been very helpfull