"On earth as it is in heaven..."

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TK
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"On earth as it is in heaven..."

Post by TK » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:52 pm

Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven. Mt. 6:10
What does this phrase mean to all of you?

TK

Amyfree
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Re: "On earth as it is in heaven..."

Post by Amyfree » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:20 pm

To stay with the kingdom of God, (stay with the God of Yahway) I guess to stay in prayer, praise and worship. (What does it mean to you?)

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Suzana
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Re: "On earth as it is in heaven..."

Post by Suzana » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:34 pm

TK wrote:
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven. Mt. 6:10
What does this phrase mean to all of you?

TK
Well, in heaven I imagine God's will would predominate, and always be carried out, with a 100% compliance rate.
I think this is what we are supposed to be praying for to also be happening on earth - that God's will regarding His kingdom will come to fruition, instead of the will of God's enemies - Satan & those who are influenced by him.

If I follow the format of the Lord's prayer, when I come to praying about this, I usually also specifically add to the 'on earth' part - I pray that God's will be done in MY life - and my family's (and sometimes also for my local area, & country).
I don't suppose my prayer would be particularly efficacious regarding a generality like "on earth" if I don't take care that in my life God's will is paramount, as opposed to my own selfish will, or the will & schemes of God's enemy for me.
Suzana
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If a man cannot be a Christian in the place he is, he cannot be a Christian anywhere. - Henry Ward Beecher

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darinhouston
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Re: "On earth as it is in heaven..."

Post by darinhouston » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:30 pm

I wonder if it might be eschatological. Praying for the New Earth to come, and that heaven and earth will be one -- sounds a bit post-mil, but not necessarily.

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charleswest
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Re: "On earth as it is in heaven..."

Post by charleswest » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:33 pm

TK wrote:
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven. Mt. 6:10
What does this phrase mean to all of you?

TK
The fulfillment of Scripture.
“I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views... ” Abraham Lincoln. Excerpt from a letter to Horace Greeley. 22 August 1862
= = = =
Be Blessed. We Are Loved...
cw

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look2jesus
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Re: "On earth as it is in heaven..."

Post by look2jesus » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:46 am

I'm with Suzana on this one.
And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowlege and discernment...Philippians 1:9 ESV

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TK
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Re: "On earth as it is in heaven..."

Post by TK » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:35 pm

The lead pastor of my church is fond of using the phrase "on earth as it is in heaven." He uses it in the context that God's will for what goes on on the earth is the same as what goes on in heaven. In other words, it is the mission of the true church to bring heaven to earth.

Recall Jesus' mission statement:
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” Lk. 4:18-19
Therefore, he (my pastor) would say that the phrase "your will be done on earth as it is in heaven" is simple to figure out- if what is going on on the earth is not going on in heaven, the Church needs to work to change it, and vice versa.

If you know anything about Bill Johnson, he talks a lot like this as well. Here is a clip of Bill J. talking along these lines:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0rsX3x9 ... re=related


TK

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Perry
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Re: "On earth as it is in heaven..."

Post by Perry » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:49 pm

I've always liked the KJV translation for this... which says, "IN" earth as in heaven (as opposed to "ON" earth). And since I am made of earth I take this to mean God's will done in me. It's one thing to pray for God's will to be done on the earth, and quite another to pray for his will to be done in my daily life.

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steve
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Re: "On earth as it is in heaven..."

Post by steve » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:23 pm

My reflections on the above video clip:

Bill Johnson, the preacher in the clip is counting on an audience that is there to be stimulated by witticisms, rather than to be discipled in the truth. Statements like, "The reason Peter's shadow healed people is because your shadow will always release whatever overshadows you," is, of course, nonsensical. The scriptures do not teach it, nor does reality confirm it—nor does it even make sense. The comment got some whoops and cheers from the audience (as it was calculated to do), but it is just the kind of silliness that has been bleeding the last drops of credibility from the charismatic movement over the past half-century, and has forced many Christians concerned about the reputation of Christ increasingly to distance themselves from it.

The preacher (typically of his ilk) mocks the idea that pain and suffering may be God's tools to shape us and to build us up spiritually. He says we have created a theology from our "disappointments" rather than from "revelation." I can't answer for others, but I built my theology from sources like Genesis, Job, the Psalms, the prophets, Jesus, Paul, James and Peter. I count the teachings of these sources to be a revelation from God. The preacher did not tell us from which revelations, or from which authors, he has derived his theology. He certainly did not use scripture.

Johnson points to certain aspects of Jesus' ministry (healing, calming a storm, etc.) as descriptive of normative life on earth, but does not seem to see Christ's weakness, shame and suffering (through which Christ was "made perfect" and "learned obedience") as equally normative. Though I did not hear him comment upon this, he must certainly think that Paul, who believed that his sufferings were actually spiritually beneficial to himself and to the church, greatly miscalculated what the norms of Christian experience should be. If Paul didn't know, I wonder how Johnson found out? Was he, perhaps, caught into a fourth heaven?

The audience does not appear to be made up of critical thinkers—which is sad, since the Apostle Paul insisted that those who speak should be judged by their audience. Too many Christians have been afraid to obey this injunction for so long that they seem to have lost the capacity to listen and think simultaneously.

For example, the preacher seems to think that the petition, "Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven," actually means: "May all of the conditions that prevail in heaven also characterize existence on earth" (a very nice thought, which would immediately eliminate aging, marriage, secular employment, child-rearing, evangelism, persecution, and a great number of other things that do not go on in heaven).

To say that God's will should be done on earth just as God's will is done in heaven is not the same thing as saying that God's will for our circumstances on earth is the same as what will be God's will for us once we get to heaven. If God wished to have exactly the same conditions prevailing on earth as prevail in heaven (e.g., no trials), then one of the two places is redundant. Earth is a place of warfare; heaven is rest. Earth is a place of mortality and death; heaven is a place of immortality. Earth is a place of faith; heaven is a place of sight. Earth is the training ground of the soul; heaven is the destiny of the fully-trained soul. God's will in heaven is that heaven's business is perfectly done in heaven. His will for earth is that earth's business is perfectly done on earth.

If preachers would become more interested in preparing their congregations for the realities of life, rather than charming them with shallow (and untrue) aphorisms, we might actually begin to see the healing of the charismatic movement of its tragic sickness of carnality and immaturity, which has taken what was once the most dynamic sector of the modern church and reduced it to a laughingstock among sensible observers.

TK, I hope this is not your pastor that I am thus critiquing. I hope not to offend you, if it is. I am far more impressed with you than with him.

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TK
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Re: "On earth as it is in heaven..."

Post by TK » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:11 pm

Thanks, Steve, for your reply. I was hoping you would do so.

Bill J is not my pastor, although the church I attend here in OH does have a relationship to his Bethel Church in Redding, CA.

There is much I like very much about my church- they are very much about doing the practical business of the church- i.e helping the poor, street evangelism and minsitry, transforming the community for the Kingdom etc. It is also very worship-oriented which I really like and is a "must" for me. The pastor that I hear at church generally does not preach like Bill J, but I certainly suspect he would be sympathetic to the views of Bill J.

When I watch clips like the one I posted, I admit it creates some excitement. However, for the reasons you mention, there is always a "lurch" in my spirit because red flags do indeed shoot up.

It seems like I am perpetually torn between conservative traditional non-charismatic christianity and the desire or the hope that there is indeed something more. I will state that the greatest amount of spiritual growth I have experienced has been in a more charismatic environment, although as stated I am not 100% comfortable in that environment.

TK

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