Women's attire...

[Guest]

We are good friends with some believers who believe that a godly woman should wear long skirts at all times. They would say this is the most modest, as well as the most feminine.

What are your thoughts, as well as experiences in this area?

I keep waiting for our friends who believe this way to talk to my husband about my wearing pants and capris. My husband really dislikes the idea of me wearing skirts all the time and he sees modesty and femininity (of course) in scripture, but that can come with longer skirts, pants, or capris. This really seems like a silly issue to me, but I know that some have some very passionate beliefs about the subject.

Anyway, thoughts? Scriptures?

[Guest]

We are good friends with some believers who believe that a godly woman should wear long skirts at all times. They would say this is the most modest, as well as the most feminine.

What are your thoughts, as well as experiences in this area?

Modesty and feminine fashion are societal norms than cannot be legalistically mandated across other societies. I've seen half-naked women in Africa with more modesty than fully-dressed women in the States.
D.

[Guest]

Hi Rae,

We are good friends with some believers who believe that a godly woman should wear long skirts at all times. They would say this is the most modest, as well as the most feminine.

I would have to ask your friends what is it about long skirts that makes them more "modest" and "feminine". Sounds like just a matter of opinion to me. I agree with DJ.

[Guest]

Hi Rae,
It seems to me that sometimes long skirts might be the opposite of modest when it draws attention to the woman. Certain cuts or fabrics may not be modest at all.

Speaking woman to woman, do you sometimes feel more modest in a pair of jeans than a skirt? I often do, but I don't wear my jeans tight or low cut. (Not that anyone would want to see that anyway.)

What is your instinct about why these people believe what they do? Is it because women shouldn't dress like men? My grandmother never wore a pair of pants in her life because my grandfather wouldn't have it. She wore stylish dresses, however. Do your friends continue to wear long skirts when they aren't in style?

djeaton,
When you say that you've seen half-naked women in Africa who are more modest than fully-dressed American women, do you mean what passes for fully-dressed, but actually isn't, or do you have something else in mind? Your statement has me a little confused...

[Guest]

Isn't the real issue with modesty and femininity a matter of cultural sensitivity? Shouldn't the question be "how do I keep from being provocative in the culture I live in?"

As DJ pointed out, there are cultures where women walk around topless (half-naked) and it's a normal thing. As far as I can tell, men in those cultures do not find breasts sexually stimulating at all (or else I would think they would at least want their daughters and wives covered). But a boy in living in America might see a National Geographic magazine depicting this culture and think he was very fortunate to get this peep-show.

I don't doubt that there was a time in our own country's history when women donning pants was absolutely scandalous. However, it can't be said that it is so today. Women wearing pants and capri's is common place and the average man thinks nothing of it unless the pants are unusually provocative. I don't see a woman wearing pants as being any less feminine or modest as long as it's in good taste.

In the apostles days, being provocative apparently included jewelry and braided hair (1 Pet 3, 1 Tim 2), and head coverings in the Greek cultures (1 Cor 11)

I think the general guidelines for women is to not push the envelope of the culture around them, not to live on the edge of provocative fashion. I'm only 38, but I'm sure I'm already considered old-fashioned in this area because I don't particularly care for the fashions of young women today that reveal more about them than I care to know. But my sons (when they get old enough to notice these things) may not be stumbled by this at all and it may just become as normal as women wearing pants is today.

It seems to me that it comes down to a matter of loving attitude on women's part, and a matter of self-control for the men (fruit of the Spirit).

By the way, I think men also would do well not to flaunt big arms or tight buns (can I say that on a Christian forum? ), or whatever else might stumble a woman as well.

[Guest]

djeaton,
When you say that you've seen half-naked women in Africa who are more modest than fully-dressed American women, do you mean what passes for fully-dressed, but actually isn't, or do you have something else in mind? Your statement has me a little confused...

I'm not real clear in my communication lots of times. Let me elaborate. I have spent about six weeks total in Kenya and Ghana on mission trips. In some vilages that I was in, the things we saw would get you arrested on the streets in the US. Yet there was nothing provocative or sensual about it. Yet I have seen women in church with long sleeves and/or skirts that were very provocative in the way they were dressed, acting, moving, and eyeing the opposite sex. My point is that modesty includes what you cover, but that is just part of the equation.
D.

[Guest]

OK, I get it now.

[Guest]

Speaking woman to woman, do you sometimes feel more modest in a pair of jeans than a skirt? I often do, but I don't wear my jeans tight or low cut. (Not that anyone would want to see that anyway.)

I generally do feel more modest in pants (or capris). I don't really know why though. Maybe if I were to wear thick denim skirts I would feel as modest, but my husband doesn't like those at all!

What is your instinct about why these people believe what they do? Is it because women shouldn't dress like men? My grandmother never wore a pair of pants in her life because my grandfather wouldn't have it. She wore stylish dresses, however. Do your friends continue to wear long skirts when they aren't in style?

It's definitely because they feel that women should not dress like men. And I think they would wear dresses no matter what the current style was. It's intersting, I was reading an article on another website that talked about t-shirts being made originally for men. Maybe if we have to wear skirts then we can't wear t-shirts with the skirts. Or maybe we should all just go back to wearing robes. Hmm...

Anyway, here's a good article I found after I posted the question if anyone is interested in reading it...

http://www.ifbreformation.org/Review_Wo ... pants.aspx

[Guest]

...Yet I have seen women in church with long sleeves and/or skirts that were very provocative in the way they were dressed, acting, moving, and eyeing the opposite sex. My point is that modesty includes what you cover, but that is just part of the equation.

True. And in my experience when I was a young person, those are the gals who got all the dates. Not that I'm still harboring any bitterness 30 years later....

Most of the guys here are married, right? So, were you guys attracted to your wife's quiet, gentle spirit and good works? Should single women do nothing to make themselves attractive visually to single men?

[Guest]

I have been single four times, punctuated by three "lifetime partnerships" (as I thought). Ever since my first marriage, I have never been able to take an interest in a woman whose clothing or behavior demonstrated the lack of a sense of modesty.

As a male, I do tend to notice if an attractive woman is "strutting her stuff"—and I would not be candid if I were to deny that it appeals one element (the lowest) in my human nature. But I can honestly say that such behavior turns me off, in terms of any interest in getting to know such a woman with the prospect of marriage in view.

I have been single, this last time, since 2001. At my age, I did not expect that young and attractive women would be in my circle of friends. However, there have been some such women in my recent society, some of whom (amazingly!) seemed as if they might like for me to find them attractive. However, women (and there have been a couple) who obviously are trying to attract a man by the display of their female endowments just evoke my pity. The men that they will attract that way are not such men as I would think a Christian woman would desire as a mate.

On the other hand, a woman need not make herself frumpy. Good taste in dress is neither provocative nor dowdy. A man is visually stimulated by females. God wired men this way, so it is not a defect in the species. It means, however, that while a woman ought to look as attractive as she can to her mate, she must beware of attracting the wrong kind of attention from other men.

Modesty of behavior and dress are among the most attractive (and rare) characteristics of a Christian woman, from the standpoint of a godly man. I remember, in my youth, discussing with other godly, single men, the lamentable dearth of virtuous women available. The ornament of a meek and quiet spirit is of great price in the sight of God (1 Pet.3:3-4)—and in the sight of men of God.