Baptism and Acts 2:38

Post by **_postpre** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:34 am

Although I have never posted before now, I have appreciated the spirit of this forum for some time.

Due to indepth study of the Scriptures and the early Church fathers, my position on Baptism has changed from the typical Baptist view (that baptism is an outward sign of a previously secured regeneration) to that of the earliest Christian writers following the apostles (that the time of one's water baptism should be seen as coincident in time with the new birth). I don't believe that baptism per se saves anyone. God saves. But the Bible presents that He regenerates the heart, gives His Spirit, and remits one's sins when they are obedient to the command to be baptized.

Acts 2:38: Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for {eis} the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This verse clearly ties the remission of sin and the gift of the Holy Spirit to Baptism. In Greek the preposition "eis" always looks forward and implies progression to a point. In essence Peter is saying, "Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ "unto", "to obtain", the remission of sins." IMO, it's interesting to read how the esteemed Greek scholars (Robertson, Mantey, Wallace) either undermine the force of "eis" or attempt to explain away this text when it is quite obvious what Peter was conveying.

I like a good theological discussion. I promise to keep a spirit of humility. But, how do you understand the so many Scriptures in the New Testament that tie baptism with the new birth?

Brian

Post by **_SamIam** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:51 am

Postpre,

The first edition of the NIV (1973) rendered Acts 2:38 in this manner:

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

The NIV is generally considered a "thought-for-thought" translation that does some of the "interpretation" for you. I think they were "spot-on" in this reading.

M.Storrs

Post by **_Paidion** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:56 am

The subject of baptism was discussed quite extensively in a thread entitled "baptism".

In "Misc Theological Topics" go to page 3, and you will find it.

Post by **_postpre** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:07 am

M.Storrs,

Thanks for your contribution. I should first state that I learned from urbandictionary.com that the phrase "spot-on" means well done, perfect, or right on.

However, I fail to percieve how the NIV's translation of this verse in any way subverts the force of the preposition "eis" (or unto) in the Greek. Even here in the NIV forgiveness of sins is conditioned upon repentance and baptism.

How do you understand this verse apart from this explanation?

Brian

Post by **_SamIam** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:33 am

postpre,

I don't think the 1973 NIV subverts the force of the preposition, the 1973 NIV supports the idea that forgiveness and the gift of the Holy Spirit is conditioned upon repentance and baptism.

M. Storrs

Post by **_postpre** » Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:58 am

MStorrs,

OK. I agree with you then. I briefly scoured the old Baptism thread, and was surprised that more than a few believe the way I do.

I'll read the thread in it's entirety and post further questions here.

Brian

Post by **_Father_of_five** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:50 pm

Brian,

I would like to suggest a different way of looking at this issue. I do not believe that God has a checklist. Many believe that if you (1) Believe, (2) Repent, (3) Confess, and are (4) Baptized, then you meet God's "requirements" and are acceptable to receive forgiveness of sins and are then "saved."

When one sins he carries the guilt of this sin with him. His conscience is his tormentor. He may harden his heart but he still finds no relief from his sinfulness. It is a burden that is carried by all who do not know Christ. Jesus came to set us free from this burden. The Good News is that Christ paid for the sins of the whole world. It is not necessaary to carry the guilt any longer. Now here is the key. If you don't believe this it does you no good because you have nowhere to lay aside your guilt. Only if you truly believe can your heart find relief. Your belief is not to satisfy a checklist - No! - it is necessary so that you satisfy yourself that God has indeed provided a remedy.

Even though God has forgiven our sin through the sacrifice of Jesus, it is still necessary that we forgive ourself - only then can we find relief from the guilt and shame from our own sinfulness. Only when we believe in Jesus and what he did for us can we forgive ourself and then be set free.

Heb 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

This same thing holds true for Baptism. It has been provided for our benefit. God has already forgiven us. "...for I will be merciful to their unrighteousness and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more" (Heb 8:12). Baptism provides a way for us to realize that forgiveness in our hearts and "lay aside every weight and the sin that so easily ensnares us" (Heb 12:1).

Only in knowing that God has forgiven us can we forgive ourselves and purge our conscience from dead works and find the true joy and peace in Jesus.

Todd

Post by **_postpre** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:03 pm

Todd,

You make an excellent point. I think today, with the many streams of Christianity that challenge and second guess each other, we have complicated matters more than God intended. What God is really after is "repentance from dead works and faith toward Him." Baptism was simply meant to convey the awesome spiritual transformation that occurs when one repents in this way and turns to the Living Savior. It wasn't supposed to be something hard. Only a tangible act, a customary act, a living out of Christ's burial and resurrection, the time in which we a reborn and given His Spirit.

Yet we know that God is merciful. IMHO, doubtless God regenerates the heart of the one who obeys a Gospel message (even if the message is flawed and doesn't insist on immediate baptism). I believe I was saved that way. It just shows what God is really after- the one who's heart is "perfect toward Him." Now, there isn't a Scripture that necessarily supports this, yet the experience of many Christians strongly suggests it.

God is not bound to a formula, as you suggest. I doubt that the early Church was hung up at all on the baptism issue. They probably didn't see salvation as some kind of formula. I bet new converts were eager to be baptized and to live out their Savior's burial and resurrection.

Brian

Post by **_brody_in_ga** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:20 pm

I agree with the above.

I used to go back and forth with some Church of Christ guys on this ad-infinitum ad-nauseum

But the more I study scripture, I see that one must not think in terms like "Ok, I have done this, that, this, that, check this off the list ETC.."
Rather, one who is a disciple should be concerned with serving Jesus and submitting to his Lordship.
The groups who have a "Salvation plan of 5 steps"(Repent, believe, confess, baptism, endure to the end)seem to be missing something all together... namely the heart of the issue.

I will admit that all of the above just mentioned, seem to be nessesary to the Christian faith. Jesus commanded them all. And any disciple willdo those things. But not for the reason of just getting a ticket to heaven, rather to serve Christ out of a servent mentality and heart.
Just my 2-cents

Post by **_postpre** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:03 pm

I realized after reading this old post- my initial post on the subject of Acts 2:38- that I made a somewhat sarcastic remark about some Greek scholars. I realized that was a little out of line and thus edited the sentence

Brian