Basic Preterism Question (what is it?)

Post by **_AARONDISNEY** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:37 pm

Hello, Steve
Just out of curiostiy, since you see that there is a period of time that is half the length of 7 years in Revelation, and you do believe in a Church rapture (only not 7 years prior to the second coming), is it your assessment that the rapture occurs 3 and a half years before His second coming..Kind of a mid-trib thing? Or is it that you believe there is no worldwide tribulation coming to the earth?

Dan 9:27
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

Is it your conclusion that this is not the Antichrist ?

I'll limit my questions (or at least try to) since I do plan to get and read your book soon.

Post by **_Les Wright** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:36 pm

re: good books on Preterism

I think A Hoekema's 'The Bible and the Future' is a great book on what the Bible has to say about the future.

When I read it, I didn't know that much about it.. but I loved the book and still do!

He is one of the authors in the 4 views of revelation book I think.

Les

Post by **_Steve** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:33 pm

I don't think Anthony Hoekema is a preterist (I think he is an idealist), but he is an amillennialist. I would agree with him on most eschatological matters. He wrote the amillennial view in Robert Clouse's book on the four views of the millennium, entitled, "The Meaning of the Millennium."

His chapter in that book was the first amillennial presentation I ever encountered in print, back in 1979. I had reached the same conclusions on my own from my independent study of scripture a year or two earlier, and was delighted to find that someone else had reached the same conclusions and used the same reasoning as had I.

Aaron—

The preterist view normally identifies the three-and-a-half years with the Jewish War of AD 66-70. I personally take the period as symbolic of the church age (pretty much like the idealist view). Like other preterists, I personally take most of Revelation to be about the Jewish War and the destruction of Jerusalem. There are two sections, however, that I take as the idealists do (see the notes on the "spiritual" view in my book).

Most preterists don't apply any prophecies to the end of the world other than those that speak of the resurrection and judgment at the future coming of Christ. Both of the biblical references to the "great tribulation" are identified with the Jewish War of the first century. No world-wide tribulation is seen to be predicted in scripture.

The so-called "antichrist" (a term never used in the Bible other than of those who deny that Jesus is the Christ, in 1 John) is not a future personage. Most preterists take the "beast" to be Nero. "The Man of Sin" is variously interpreted—I follow the historicists in this case, who identify the Man of Sin with the Roman Catholic papacy.

The one who confirms the covenant with many for one week (Dan.9:27) is Christ himself, who, in the midst of the week (after 3 1/2 years of ministry) brings an end to the legitimacy of the Jewish sacrificial system. The abomination "that makes desolate" is the Roman invasion and destruction of the temple in AD 70.

This is the most natural understanding of the seventieth week in Daniel. The passage nowhere mentions an antichrist. The only individuals mentioned in the who passage are the Messiah and "the prince who is to come." That prince is said to be the leader of the people who destroy the city and the sanctuary, making him the Roman general Titus, or else the spiritual principality over the Romans (corresponding to the "princes" of Persia and Greece, mentioned in Daniel 10:13 & 20).

I think you will find, if you peruse the various threads in this "eschatology" category, that most such questions have been discussed pretty thoroughly elsewhere, but I realize they may not be that easy to find among the many threads. Feel free to ask further about these things.

Post by **_AARONDISNEY** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:26 am

Thank you for a very thorough basic preterism lesson, Steve. It should be a very interesting book to read through. Some of the things that I have taken for granted to be rock solid absolutes in the Bible may be challenged by this. I also plan to try to understand the classic view that many have held to (including myself) to see what matches us scripturally the best. But it seems you have made some very good points. If I come out of all this with the same views at least I'll understand better why I believe as I do, but who knows, I may be calling myself a "Peterist" too after reading through the 4 views

.
Thanks again,
your brother
Aaron

Post by **_john b** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:41 am

AARONDISNEY-

I would also recomend a quick listen to "What are we to make of Israel" under the Topical Lectures page of thenarrowpath.com if you haven't listened to it yet. It's only 4 lectures that are simple to understand and really helpfull when you deal with matters about eschatology.

It's good to hear your going into this with an open mind. I did the same thing about a year ago and it's been an incredible journey.

Post by **_Allyn** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:55 am

Amen to that, John. I know now that God had been preparing me all along. He gave me a heart open to the truth and the truth has certainly set me free.

Post by **_Les Wright** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:57 pm

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the correction re: Anthony Hoekema not being a preterist

What I remember about the book was his detailed commentary on Revelation 20

Tx
Les

Post by **_AARONDISNEY** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:55 pm

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm listening to Steve's Eschatology lessons right now and hanging onto every word. I had the day off and have listened to 3 and a half lectures. It is awesome. I never thought I would buy into an a-millenialist point of view but the points being made are rock solid and scriptural. I can't wait to get that book!!!
Eschatology was always something that I was afraid to get into because it seemed so difficult to follow but I think I'm ready to understand God's plans for His people and the future (apart from only the fact of being with Him forever).

Post by **_Allyn** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:12 pm

Hey AARONDISNEY, I have Steve's book and it is really a great book to have around for quick reference. At least that is how I use it. Also, I have listened many of Steve's lectures and feel just as you expressed. I am amazed (not really) how some people are so resistant to the opportunity to hear the truth contained in what he says but I guess at one time I was as well

Post by **_AARONDISNEY** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:04 pm

Allyn wrote:Hey AARONDISNEY, I have Steve's book and it is really a great book to have around for quick reference. At least that is how I use it. Also, I have listened many of Steve's lectures and feel just as you expressed. I am amazed (not really) how some people are so resistant to the opportunity to hear the truth contained in what he says but I guess at one time I was as well

Exactly.
Like I said before I plan to try to understand the other points of view as well and am not yet totally sold on amillenialism, and I am still waiting for lectures on preterism in regard to the tribulation, but it is impossible to deny many points (so far) are right on with the Word of God. I guess I'll stop making posts for now and come back to this when Ive given every side of this a thourough chance to make their points.
God bless you all...