Why is it good for us that Jesus went away?

[mattrose]

In John 16:7a, Jesus tells the disciples: "It is for your good that I am going away"

This raises the question of WHY it is better for us that Jesus went away

In John 16:7b, Jesus preemptively answers this question: "Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you."

Accepting the answer as true (Jesus said it!), I am interested in a second WHY question. WHY wouldn't the Counselor (the Holy Spirit) come to us without being sent by Jesus? Or, to put it in simpler and more direct terms, WHY couldn't/didn't Jesus simply INVITE the Holy Spirit in addition to His own continued presence? Why didn't Jesus stay AND invite the Spirit?

I have already discussed this question with my SS class and I think they supplied some decent suggestions. But I am interested in what you all might have to say on this subject.

In Christ,
matthew

[TK]

Excellent question!

It seems that God's model for the church was that of the Body, made up of different parts (gifts?) which as a whole was to take the place of Christ's ministry on earth after he ascended. If Jesus was actually still here, there may have been less incentive (if that is the right word) for Christians to function as a united Body of Christ. When Jesus left, those left behind had no choice but to function as the Body-- they couldn't just send people to Jesus to deal with their problems.

This question is deep enough that I am sure my response barely scratches the surface of the truth, and of course might be dead wrong. But it seems like this may have something to do with it.

TK

[steve]

It seems to me that the exaltation of Christ was necessary in order that He might become the Head over all things to the Church, which is His body (Eph.1:20-23). The Church becomes His body by partaking of, and embodying, His Spirit.

The Spirit was present in the world, and even with the disciples, prior to the ascension of Christ. The "coming" of the Spirit that could not occur until Christ's ascension was, it seems, His coming in a special sense...the sense in which the believing community became God's permanent domicile on earth.

This development allowed Jesus to be at all times present with (and in) His disciples wherever they might go, which was not possible while He was confined to the mode of His earthly physical presence.

[TK]

Although not directly on point, here is Oswald Chambers' reading for today:

. . tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high —Luke 24:49

The disciples had to tarry, staying in Jerusalem until the day of Pentecost, not only for their own preparation but because they had to wait until the Lord was actually glorified. And as soon as He was glorified, what happened? “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear” ( Acts 2:33 ). The statement in John 7:39 — “. . . for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified”— does not pertain to us. The Holy Spirit has been given; the Lord is glorified— our waiting is not dependent on the providence of God, but on our own spiritual fitness.

The Holy Spirit’s influence and power were at work before Pentecost, but He was not here. Once our Lord was glorified in His ascension, the Holy Spirit came into the world, and He has been here ever since. We have to receive the revealed truth that He is here. The attitude of receiving and welcoming the Holy Spirit into our lives is to be the continual attitude of a believer. When we receive the Holy Spirit, we receive reviving life from our ascended Lord.

It is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit that changes people, but the power of the ascended Christ coming into their lives through the Holy Spirit. We all too often separate things that the New Testament never separates. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not an experience apart from Jesus Christ— it is the evidence of the ascended Christ.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit does not make you think of time or eternity— it is one amazing glorious now. “This is eternal life, that they may know You . . .” ( John 17:3 ). Begin to know Him now, and never finish.

TK

[mattrose]

Thanks TK, Steve & Oswald

I think my question was at once both deep and very simple. I feel that based on these responses the Q & A has helped me to grow a little deeper in my understanding of the unity of our trinitarian God.

[Kent]

I believe its because of the fulfillment like Steve pointed out which had to be done according to the will of the Father so that we could enter through Jesus into eternal life, and I also believe that it was done so that we could live by the Spirit thus we could be known as disciples and sons of God by the fruit of the Spirit. It is all supposed to tie into having the privilege and tremendous blessing of even being known as children of God by being guided by the Spirit which Paul points out in Rom. 8:14.. Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called sons of God." Matthew 5:9
Jesus also said "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." John 14:27... We're a type of people that would be afraid of our lives even if Christ was sleeping on the same boat that were sailing on. He lived the way He was supposed to even to the point of death. People are so weak and He is so strong and He shows us that constantly by His Spirit... So if we continue to submit ourselves to God as living sacrifices we will grow stronger and people will know that Jesus Christ is God because He will be glorified by His people that bear good fruit which comes from abiding in Christ in every aspect of our daily lives. He taught us the teachings that the human race was supposed to be taught. He left and by doing so he showed an even further extent of His awesome love, that He would trust the Church with everything that belongs to Him while He is away. These are interesting questions you've asked.. It has been pretty fun to meditate on these I feel I have grown closer to God through these questions because these questions pretty much ask why does God want us to focus on the unseen? I love the faith and hope the Lord continues to work in me and the same goes to the brothers and sisters that desire to be perfected in Christ. Thanks a lot brothers!

[Jeff]

As for your first question, it might be important to remember that he went away to be our high priest (as described in Hebrews) at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us. That might be part of it, although admittedly I need to do more personal study into the office of high priest of Christ.

[SamIam]

This raises the question of WHY it is better for us that Jesus went away

In John 16:7b, Jesus preemptively answers this question: "Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you."

Be careful to remember that not every conversation in the Bible is directed toward us, living in the United States in 2010. Jesus was telling the 11 Apostles that THEY would benefit from him going away. The Holy Spirit as a Counselor was promised to THEM. I read this as Jesus promise that the Apostles would recieve additional revelation after Jesus departed.

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (John 16:12-15 ESV)

These promises are made directly to the Apostles. They are not general promises for all Christians.

[Jeff]

Be careful to remember that not every conversation in the Bible is directed toward us, living in the United States in 2010. Jesus was telling the 11 Apostles that THEY would benefit from him going away. The Holy Spirit as a Counselor was promised to THEM. I read this as Jesus promise that the Apostles would recieve additional revelation after Jesus departed.

These promises are made directly to the Apostles. They are not general promises for all Christians.

I agree with your point that we have to consider the context and the primary audience, but in this case I have to disagree. I don't see anything in the usage of the Greek for Counselor/Comforter or the context to indicate this is referring to the receiving of additional revelation. Of course apostles did in fact receive additional revelation regarding the church, etc. but I'm not seeing that here. I believe the Holy Spirit continues to act in the role of Counselor to us today as he did to the apostles then. Of course they were empowered in special ways by the Holy Spirit that we are not today. Again I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of this, but I am certainly open to more dialog and scripture on the matter!

[Jeff]

But as I read your posting of verses 12-15, I can definitely see that being a little more specific to the primary audience!