Question on the promise of Land

Post by **_Stephen Patrick** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:16 pm

Goodvening everyone,

I was wondering if anyone here would please take a look at this blog and the comments made after a particular topic. From what I have come away with while engaging in a debate with them, I think I stumbled upon a group of people that believe the promise of land to the Jews is not only an eternal promise to a physical piece of real estate, but anyone who does not believe the same way they do is not saved. At least that is what I think they are saying.

The link to the blog is:

http://averyheavystone.blogspot.com/

and the topic is the 2nd article, "Why Moslems Kill each other." Please click on the comments after the article and read the debate. Am I imagining this or do they really believe that if I don't agree with the land promise as stated by them then I am not a Christian? Any help or comments by you would be appreciated.

Thanks

Post by **_Paidion** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:35 pm

I do not think the blog group is saying that anyone who does not believe as they do about Israel is not saved. Please reconsider the following statement from the blog which I think is their basic position:

Those Christians who assume to have replaced Israel and the Jews will have to take the judgments which God brought to Israel along with the blessings.

They appear to believe that if you are assuming you are "The True Israel" then you will have to receive the same judgments which God brough to Israel. Of course, this position has no basis whatever in Scripture.

Notwithstanding, holding to this postition does not necessarily imply, from their standpoint, that you are "doomed".

Post by **_Stephen Patrick** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:23 pm

Thanks Padion,

Yet they continually reject the conditional nature of the promise. At least from what I understand it never was about land. Not once does Jesus ever agree with the belief the Jews had that the Messiah would liberate them from Rome and the kingdom of God would commence. He came to die for the sins of man. Yet they believe that if the Jews would have accepted Jesus, then He would have ushered in the kingdom right then. Yet that is not why He came.

Sorry, but I still see throughout their writings that if one does not agree with an eternal, physical land promise then one cannot be saved.

Post by **_Michelle** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:16 pm

Hi Stephen Patrick,

I read the exchange you were talking about.

They call you an apostate, satan-blinded anti-semite who follows a weak, pathetic god and learns his theology at "The Pharisee apostate synagogue of Satan churches of America." (TPASoSCoA)

They said: "God strikes their enemies in this judgment.Think about that. God fights for them while they are still apart from Him. If HE takes their side, then WHO are we fighting when we say God hates them and is done with them? God Himself. That is the point of this judgment, to destroy replacement theology once and for all."

So, yeah, I think they don't believe you are saved. They are kind of inconsistent, however: Some places it seems that they think you have a screwy eschatology because you aren't saved; in other places it seems they think you lost your salvation because of your beliefs.

Did you notice that Marcel and his friend talk about shooting and blowing things up a lot?

Post by **_Stephen Patrick** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:33 pm

Hi Michelle,

Yes I did notice that quite a bit. Its as if they are chomping on the bit and can't wait until the enemies of Israel are destroyed. While I attempted to explain that Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. all needed to come to the cross, I never recieved an answer from them that the Jews needed to repent too. Again, I could be wrong but they played the race card, or the ethnicity of Jews for the promises instead of those of the faith of Abraham.

Post by **_Mort_Coyle** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Hi Stephen,

I've attempted to reason with hardcore Zionists such as the one on that site and the result is invariably the same: They hurl shrill accusations of anti-Semitism, ad hominem attacks, etc. You won't find the type of courteous dialog that graces The Narrow Path. You might as well beat your head against a wall.

Post by **_Stephen Patrick** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:30 am

Thanks Mort.
Right now they have me getting fit for a brown shirt and and reading Hitler's best seller. Yet not once did I ever attack or say anything that could be labeled anti-semitic.

Post by **_Christopher** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:40 am

I marvel at the blindness exhibited by some people.

To say someone is not a Christian based on what they believe about Israel and hurl hateful comments toward them seems to be a perilous thing according to the apostle John.

1 John 3:14-15
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
NKJV

1 John 4:20-21
20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?
NKJV

I doubt you will get anywhere with these people Stephen. It might be wise to just "shake the dust off your feet" IMO.

Post by **_Stephen Patrick** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:13 pm

Hi Christopher,

I know what you mean.
The dust is shaken.

Steve