Is anybody else a little weary of this...?

[Guest]

Someone mentioned that those who listen to their type of music know what the words are. I listened to may types of music and rarely knew the words to the songs I listened to. Some of them I knew most of the words but most of them I didn't.

Anyway, about listening to music as a Christian. First, if you think your type of music might offend someone then listen to it in private. As far as music in general (and other things for that matter) I think about this passage:

Phil 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

Is the music you listen to a good use of your time as a Christian? Is it edifying to God? Or the people around you? Could you be praying instead or reading God's word?

My concern isn't the type of music but the reason it is being listened to. If it's for entertainment then you better judge if you time is being used wisely. What better way for satan to get a foothold than to have Christians distracted in entertainment, whether it be TV, radio, gossip, the internet or whatever. We should be utilizing our time as we feel Christ would if He were in our place.

That's my opinion anyway.

As far as tatoos go, I just wonder why a Christian would want one. I mean, we don't read of Christ or the apsotles having them so why get one? It seems the reason to get one is because they have been seen on other people. It's the same reason I want an iPod or a bigger home. Modern culture is guiding our steps. Should this be so? While it might not be sin, it sure seems like it can be baggage and even an offense.

BTW, I personally know Christians with tatoos and I don't judge them. It doesn't bother me at all. But that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion about it.

[Guest]

As far as tatoos go, I just wonder why a Christian would want one. I mean, we don't read of Christ or the apsotles having them so why get one?

This logic breaks down when we consider that neither Jesus nor the apostles drove cars, wore pants, drank coffee, played guitar, participated in a online Bible forum, etc. However, this is not to say all should get a tattoo.

It seems the reason to get one is because they have been seen on other people. It's the same reason I want an iPod or a bigger home. Modern culture is guiding our steps. Should this be so?

Agreed.
However, some may have gotten tattoos symbolizing their faith. Others may have gotten tattoos to enable them to reach out to a culture that considers tattoos normative. It is impossible to judge the reasons of believers unless they specifically share them.

While it might not be sin, it sure seems like it can be baggage and even an offense.

If it would be an offense to the culture to whom God has called you, then I would sure want to evaluate it carefully in light of conscience and Scripture. However, offending someone is inevitable when a person truly follows Christ.
Take Paul's example. He often "offended" fellow Jewish believers because of his stance of Jewish customs not applying to Gentiles. But we read instances where he had Timothy circumcised and he even paid for a temple purification right. It seems that Paul left us an example that there isn't any easy answer in the tension between reaching a lost world of many cultures and causing offense.

Dave

ps. On an aside, I'm not getting a tattoo because I'm too much of a chicken

[Guest]

On the tattoo question, you may have heard what I have to say about it on the radio. I do not think tattoos can necessarily be condemned on the basis of what the levitical law required of the Jews, but I would strongly advise any Christian considering getting tattoos to reconsider—for wisdom's sake.

One of the "cool" ways to express our faith in the seventies was through Christian bumper-stickers. Christian symbols and slogans were "tattooed" to the bumpers of our cars so that we could fly our "Jesus freak" flag for all to see. We were young.

What we never dreamed of in those days was that our tastes and our ideas of what constitutes an effective witness would change as we matured. Today, when I remember my car plastered with bumper-stickers, and some of the slogans that seemed so cool at the time, I can only say that I am glad they were only on my car (now long gone) and not tattooed indelibly on my skin.

The problem with a tattoo is that, even if you feel "called" to reach a tattoo-friendly culture, you can not easily remove them if the culture changes, or your calling changes in terms of who God calls you to minister to. A friend of mine was covered with tattoos, but sensed a call to a foreign mission field, where, he was advised, tattoos were frowned-upon. He looked into removing the tattoos, but was told that it would cost him $200 per square inch to tremove them (this was in the 90s), and that they would not necessarily be invisible even then. As a result, he went to the mission field with his tattoos, but wore long sleeves and long pants in the tropical heat.

I do not judge people who get tattoos. But I confess that I pity them. I consider that they have succumbed to a youthful impulse for the sake of conforming to a culture that may change in unpredictable ways. Nothing about the future is sure—except their tattoos.

I heard a stand-up comedian telling what he would think the next day if he were to get a tattoo. He said he could picture himself looking in the mirror and saying, "Rats! I forgot not to do that!" I don't suppose most who get tattoos have regrets the very next day, but it would not be easy to convince me that they will never mature to the point where they wish they had remembered not to do that.

In my day, the way to adapt your appearance to the hip culture was to grow long hair. I did this, as did many Christians. I do not regret it. However, one reason I do not regret it today is because hair is easily cut when it goes out of style.

I suppose the bottom line for me, in advising a person considering getting a tattoo, would be: There are reasons to refrain from it; I know of no reasons to compel it. If you have no tattoos, I doubt that people in a tattoo-friendly culture will give your skin a second thought. If you have tattoos, however, and are in a tattoo-unfriendly culture, it cannot but be noticed.

[Guest]

Concerning tattoos:

Sean

It seems the reason to get one is because they have been seen on other people.

Steve Gregg

I do not judge people who get tattoos. But I confess that I pity them. I consider that they have succumbed to a youthful impulse for the sake of conforming to a culture that may change in unpredictable ways.

It doesn't surprise me that getting tattoos is perceived as conformity to the practices of others. In my understanding, the motivation for our actions should never be that "others are doing it."

As I understand the scriptures, what is referenced there as "worldliness", is in fact "conformity" to the ways of others.

Romans 12:2 Do not be conformed to this worldbut be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

The only thing we are to be conformed to is "the image of Christ." [Romans 8:29]

Indeed, Paul indicates that even in the church, there is a form of worldliness. (My own term for it is "churchliness")

If with Christ you died to the principles of the world, why do you live as if you still belonged to the world? Why do you submit to regulations:
"Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch"
... according to human precepts and teachings? [Colossians 2:20-22]

[fredhensley]

On the topic of music genres:

I’ve been following this thread with great interest and has brought to mind my earlier years as a teenager.

While I agree with Mort and Dave that from a biblical standpoint, each one should be convinced in his/her own mind before the Lord regarding music and arts, I will say that I believe that there is a strong spiritual component to music that must be considered as well.

I think most would agree that music itself (with or without lyrics) provokes moods, attitudes, emotions, and even physiology in some measure. Melodies and rhythms stimulate emotional responses within it seems to me.

Although I’m an old guy now , I’m young enough to have been into various genres like death metal and rap . I have to say that for me, these things had a tremendous impact on my overall attitude at that time in my life.

As a youth, when I was into death metal, my friends and I had a general attitude of recklessness and disregard to consequences. Listening to the super-fast, loud, continuous beat gave us a energetic high comparable to some amphetimines. You would feel like you could physically do just about anything and didn’t care much about hurting yourself (or others) in the process. Hence the violent “banging” of the head, stage diving, and “mosh pits”. It’s also not surprising to me that perilous “extreme” sports are often accompanied with this type of musical rhythm.

Likewise, when I was into rap music, I felt a general sense of superiority, selfishness, and disrespect of others. It didn’t matter what the words were, it provoked these feelings in me. Of course I didn’t recognize these attitudes as being wrong at the time. The world was about “getting mine” no matter who I had to step on to get it. I was more likely to get into fights, steal things, and use women at this time in my life. Again, I don’t find it surprising that rap music is typically an accompaniment to gang activity and criminal behavior.

I don’t want to appear to be broad-brushing or singling out any particular groups of people here. Similar criticisms can be applied to just about any musical genre (except bluegrass ). Country-western makes me want to chew tobacco and put my car up on blocks (I’m kidding of course). But I think it’s important to take our spiritual pulse when we engage in anything that stimulates an emotional response of any kind.

I think a comparison can be made to other sensory stimuli. Men generally do well to avoid visual images and thoughts that stimulate a sexual craving. Even some odors (perfumes, etc.) can generate this kind of response. Compulsive eaters generally do well to avoid even tasting chocolate and other sweet things. Alcoholics generally do well to avoid even a little taste of alcohol.

Likewise, if music generates un-Christian feelings and attitudes, I think we would do well to avoid them.

But again:

Rom 14:5
Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
NKJV

[Guest]

P.O.D. doesn't just look different, they undermine the very essense of Christianity: Christ.

This is a very serious charge to be making against your brothers in Christ. I would be quite a bit less cavalier, if I were you, about calling unclean what God has made clean. If you stand by these accusations, then I would challenge you to provide some proof or strong evidence of them (not just additional accusations).

They distrort and pervert our Lord and Saviour by promoting and praising anti-Christ, blasphemous and filthy rock performers, such as Marilyn Manson. Manson, an officially, ordained "reverend" in the Church of Satan, mutilates himself on stage…

Again, serious accusations against your brothers in Christ.

Perhaps you are expecting P.O.D. to act like a Christian band that only does concerts with other Christian bands for (mostly) Christian audiences and never interacts with the lost?

Number one, P.O.D. never claims to be a Christian band. In fact, they overtly say they are not a Christian band. But if they were a Christian band, I would, yes, expect them to act like Christians.

keep in mind, P.O.D. (or any band at their level) is a business. It is their career. They have to choose whether to limit their career to being wholesome entertainment for Christian teens or interact with the world at large and (hopefully) be a Christian witness in an often hostile environment. The latter strikes me as being more missional in nature. Wouldn't it be great if all of us could be more missional in our careers?

See below

Or, we could open a coffee shop that welcomes everyone. We could hire non-Christian employees – perhaps even homeless or troubled youth who might benefit from a job where they could be loved on by believers. We could try to attract customers from all walks of life, hoping to have opportunities to reflect Christ to them. We could work with non-Christian suppliers and be a positive witness to them by treating them exceptionally well and paying our bills promptly. We could purchase “fair-trade" coffee beans and see to it that some of our profits went back to help the communities of the farmers.

In other words, we could build a Christian ghetto or be actively involved in the lives of non-believers. We could be insular or missional. We could be exclusive or inclusive. The former is always easier. The latter is more challenging and runs the risk of being accused by fellow Christians of being “worldly" (or worse).

Please see below.

That is much different than people who simply "look" different than we do. We are to have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them, in Christian love. This is the way of the Cross.

I’m having trouble seeing the “Christian love" in your comments thus far. Go read 1 Corinthians 13 for a good description of love. Love covers a multitude of sins. Love does not accuse. Love seeks to build up, not tear down. I really worry about people like Terry Watkins of Dial-the-Truth Ministries (who runs that web site you keep referencing) who seem to base their entire ministry on tearing down other Christians because they don’t match up to their (often misguided) standards. It’s mean spirited. And to be an accuser of the brethren is not a characteristic I would want to possess (considering who the Bible refers to as the “accuser of the brethren").

Paul’s statement in Ephesians about having no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness has to do (if read in context) with our own behaviors. It does not mean “don’t interact with anyone who is in darkness". If it did, we might as well bring all the missionaries home. Quite the contrary, we are called to bring the light of the love of Christ to those in darkness. You can’t do that from behind the safe walls of a Christian ghetto.

Please see my last comment.

So, I’m confused here. Does the Levitical law apply or not? Leviticus 19 also says (in verse 19), “Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." Do you keep this law? Verse 28 of Leviticus 19 (just before the “tattoo" verse that you cited) says, “Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." Have you broken this law? By the way, the scripture references I’m using are from the NIV or, as Terry Watkins from Dial-the-Truth Ministries calls it, “The New International PERVersion" ( http://www.pb.org/npbdocs/niv.html ).

Folks have debated the issue of whether we are to actually follow the Levitical, but I certainly believe that we are no longer bound by it. I believe I made that clear. However, I will say that some of the principles apply, throughout the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. For example our body is the Temple of the Lord. (John 2:21). That’s what I believe anyway. And so the principle exists that our body, in addition to our soul and spirit should be kept free worldly impediments, just like when Jesus drove the money-changers from the Jewish temple. This act requires the Supernatural working of the Holy Spirit, not ourselves.

As Christians, we are called to be a "set apart" and "a peculiar people". I know this primarily deals with our attitudes, our values, and our minds. But if we "conform not" to the world on the inside, don't you think it will show on the outside?

Well, you just said it yourself. It deals with our attitudes, values and minds. As Dave so eloquently stated, it’s our good works and righteousness that will make us stand out. As our Lord said, “They will know you by your love for one another."

Beyond scripture, who decides what is and isn’t “conforming to the world"? Is it you? Me? Terry Watkins from Dial-the-Truth Ministries? Is hair below the collar “conforming"? Is having an earring? Playing a distorted guitar? Using drums? Who draws the lines? We can’t. These are subjective matters.

See below.

Our society craves a painless, care-free Christianity, which Satan readily feeds them. One which doesn't hurt anyone's feelings. The Christianity of antiquity which had once shone so brightly in the days of the martyrs – is now rapidly being lost, for the true character of Christians, as strangers and pilgrims, had gone in the fatal amalgamation with the world. We are plagued with this false representation all around us.

This sounds familiar. Oh yes, Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church said something very similar. So did Charles Russell, the founder of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

It’s so easy to bash. Not so easy to build.

I know that I am not Jesus. And I don’t have His priestly authority. But He said some pretty hard things. Not accusatory, but hard. “O generation of vipers," “Ye hypocrites." These statements aren’t accusatory; accusatory implies a hue of hatred. So forgive if my words sounded that way because that was certainly not my intent.

Like MLH said, many people don’t want to criticize or be criticized. Judgment has it's proper place, when we judge ourselves first. In these last days, Christian men need discernment more than anything else.

I know that we are called to be a light to the world. We are called to be “in" the world, but never “of" it. Paul exhorts us thus:

“Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?"

Christians are to have no part with unbelievers in their paganism unbelief, and idolatry, and infidelity; Christ are not to be united with them in any way or sense where it would necessarily be understood that they were partakers with them in their sins. We are to have “no communion," nothing in common with them. What is there in common between light and darkness? What common principle is there of which they both partake? There is none. There is a total and eternal separation.

The problem here is when Christians try to use things of pagan origin and slap a “Christian" label on it. Christians borrow a theatrical production from the pagans and Christianize it. Christians must borrow hard rock and then throw some Christian lyrics in. We nurture an element of “fun" in gospel presentations, as if salesmanship is involved. Folks must seek after God on His terms.

A.W. Tozer said something that would fit well here:

“We have the breezy, self-confident Christians with little affinity for Christ and His cross. We have the joy-bell boys that can bounce out there and look as much like a game show host as possible. Yet, they are doing it for Jesus’ sake?! The hypocrites! They’re not doing it for Jesus’ sake at all; they are doing it in their own carnal flesh and are using the church as a theater because they haven’t yet reached the place where [a] legitimate theater would take them."

Concerning Eph 5:11, I believe Paul is referring to the deeds of darkness that produce no “benefit" to the body or the soul. The word “unfruitful" is used here in contrast with the “fruit of the Spirit," and so, to me it referring to behaviors, yes, but also to our actions.

Mort_Coyle, friends tuning in, everyone, I’m not trying to bash or pull down anyone. Forgive me if my words have that connotation. But I’m trying to convey that worship is not entertainment. We need to remove every unholy thing from our midst the might prevent us from worshipping the Lord Jesus in the beauty of his absolute Holiness. Now, I know this is not popular, and know one really wants to hear it.

The popular gospel goes something like this:

“Jesus addressed them saying, “I am one of the ways, one of the truths, and just one possible life, maybe. If you are basically a good person, you’re okay, man. And if you choose to come to the Father (or Mother if you prefer) through me, that’s really cool, but if not, that’s cool to, dude. Now go forth to live according to whatever feels good to you."

Watered-down emotionalism is what we experience is these last days. They put the focus on us, not God. God calls us to worship, not entertainment. In a lot of cases, as Tozer said, churches just put on an amateur talent-show filled with making lots of noise, but no real worship.

I Chronicles 12:32—“And of the children of Issachar, which were men that had understanding of the times, to know what Israel ought to do; the heads of them were two hundred; and all their brethren were at their commandment." We need these men today, in an age when most Christians do not know that the gospel and entertainment are incompatible. Many do not understand that those two are the antithesis of each other. The word “muse" means to think, or to meditate.
“Amuse" means not to think or to meditate, much like “amoral" means not moral or “atypical" means not typical. The church once sang “We Stand Amazed in the Presence." The modern church might as well sing “I Stand Amused in the Presence." You simply don’t dwell in God’s presence that way. We have people today that believe that worship is synonymous with excitement! In reality, worship is often very quiet. Sometimes, it’s exuberant—but excitement doesn’t equate with worship.

Christianity is not a game. Once we have heard God’s truth we cannot play around with it like it’s a ball, and equate it with fun and entertainment. The church is not simply a religious institution, nor is it a religious theater with a Christian “label" slapped on the side of it. It is an assembly of redeemed sinners who call unto and lowly bow before an eternal God.

[Guest]

If anyone wants to look at their lyrics - they are right here http://www.leoslyrics.com/artists/2738/
I looked through a few songs and didn't find anything particularly demonic or anything...However, it isn't exactly worship inspiring either.

[Guest]

A.W. Tozer said something that would fit well here:

“We have the breezy, self-confident Christians with little affinity for Christ and His cross. We have the joy-bell boys that can bounce out there and look as much like a game show host as possible. Yet, they are doing it for Jesus’ sake?! The hypocrites! They’re not doing it for Jesus’ sake at all; they are doing it in their own carnal flesh and are using the church as a theater because they haven’t yet reached the place where legitimate theater would take them."

Tozer said a mouthful here! A real mouthful!

[Guest]

Thoughts on music and tattoos:

My 18 year old son recently told me he was considering getting a tattoo, so we had a long talk about it. Much of what I told him was along the lines of what Steve wrote above. I told him the story of how I got my tattoo at age 19. I was only slightly drunk. I got a bluebird. On my shoulder. Go figure. The fellow that was with me was very drunk. He got a big red dragon across his chest. My tattoo doesn’t bother me, but it really doesn’t mean anything to me either (other than a reminder of my misspent youth). Fortunately, it’s not an offensive image or the name of a long-gone girlfriend.

I don’t think one can make a Biblical case against tattoos, but there are, of course, other ways to make the case – particularly that of permanence. I ended up by advising my son that if chooses to get a tattoo to, A) Put it in a place where it can be easily covered by clothing, and , B) Think long and hard about it because it will most likely be there for life.

I think in 10 or 20 years there will be a thriving business in tattoo removal.

BTW, I was only being halfway facetious about getting another tattoo. Having lived 25 years with one that has no significance, I wouldn’t mind balancing it out with one that means something special to me. Then I can show people my bluebird (and sing my Uncle Remus song) and then show them my trinity symbol on the other arm and explain what it means, using it as a opening to share the Gospel. ...Or not.

Regarding music: I know a popular worship leader who used to joke that you become a Christian and throw out all your albums (or CD’s) then spend the next twenty years gradually buying them all back!

As Christopher said so well, we need to be aware of the effects that various types of music and other stimuli have on us. This is different for each of us. There is much music from my youth that I can listen to and it makes me feel happy. There is also much of it that I cannot listen to because of lyrical content or bad memories, etc. Fortunately, I know where those lines are. If I forget, the Holy Spirit is there to convict me. I don’t need Terry Watkins from Dial-the-Truth Ministries and his ilk to tell me.


Loaves:

Christians are to have no part with unbelievers in their paganism unbelief, and idolatry, and infidelity; Christ are not to be united with them in any way or sense where it would necessarily be understood that they were partakers with them in their sins. We are to have “no communion," nothing in common with them. What is there in common between light and darkness? What common principle is there of which they both partake? There is none. There is a total and eternal separation.

I take it you don’t get out much then.

Personally, I’d rather follow my Lord Jesus and be known as a friend to sinners. It is possible (actually mandated) to do this without becoming tainted, but it takes wisdom.

The problem here is when Christians try to use things of pagan origin and slap a “Christian" label on it. Christians borrow a theatrical production from the pagans and Christianize it. Christians must borrow hard rock and then throw some Christian lyrics in. We nurture an element of “fun" in gospel presentations, as if salesmanship is involved. Folks must seek after God on His terms.

I would recommend a book entitled “Pagan Christianity” by Frank Viola ( http://ptmin.org/pagan.htm ). You may be surprised to find out how many practices in a typical church service are “things of pagan origin”.

One very common thing in Western Christian culture that is of pagan origin is dualism. Dualism is the view that earthly things are evil while spiritual things are good. Dualism can be traced back through the Gnostics all the way to Plato. Dualism draws dichotomies such as that all entertainment is evil because it’s not “spiritual”. What is fascinating is that the person expressing such a dichotomy is actually expressing a pagan worldview! The Hebrew worldview was much more holistic ("The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it." - Psalm 24:1).

There is a place for entertainment, so long as it is kept in proper perspective and proportion, is used to edify, does not become idolatrous, etc. We in America live in an entertainment saturated culture where it has gotten terribly out of perspective and idolatrous. That doesn’t mean entertainment is inherently evil, any more than sex is. It’s how we misuse entertainment (or sex) that makes it evil.

BTW, Neil Postman wrote a classic examination of entertainment’s effects on our culture entitled, “Amusing Ourselves to Death”. http://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves ... 0140094385

A.W. Tozer said something that would fit well here:

“We have the breezy, self-confident Christians with little affinity for Christ and His cross. We have the joy-bell boys that can bounce out there and look as much like a game show host as possible. Yet, they are doing it for Jesus’ sake?! The hypocrites! They’re not doing it for Jesus’ sake at all; they are doing it in their own carnal flesh and are using the church as a theater because they haven’t yet reached the place where [a] legitimate theater would take them."

With all due respect (and he is due much respect) to Mr. Tozer, who is he to say what is in the hearts of the so-called “joy-bell boys”, or anyone else for that matter?

This discussion reminds me a bit of the story in Acts 15 (emphasis added by me):

Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the brothers very glad. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

Who are we to claim to know the heart motives of other believers? Isn’t that a bit like trying to take the Holy Spirit’s place? Isn’t it presumptuous?

I can (and will) examine the fruit and the words and the teaching of another, but I cannot examine his heart and declare the status of his soul.

The popular gospel goes something like this:

“Jesus addressed them saying, “I am one of the ways, one of the truths, and just one possible life, maybe. If you are basically a good person, you’re okay, man. And if you choose to come to the Father (or Mother if you prefer) through me, that’s really cool, but if not, that’s cool to, dude. Now go forth to live according to whatever feels good to you."

What you are describing here is syncretism, or perhaps Unitarian Universalism. Where have you been hearing this declared as the Gospel? I’ve never heard such a thing stated as the Gospel. Are you exaggerating?

Watered-down emotionalism is what we experience is these last days. They put the focus on us, not God. God calls us to worship, not entertainment. In a lot of cases, as Tozer said, churches just put on an amateur talent-show filled with making lots of noise, but no real worship.

So, water-down emotionalism would mean less emotionalism since it’s been watered down, right? How about this: How about if we consider worship to be something we do with our entire selves? How about if every facet of our lives; working, resting, playing with our children, sleeping, making love to our spouse, balancing the checkbook, feeding the dog, fixing a flat tire, listening to music, etc., is all done in an attitude of worship? Or do you consider these things incompatible with worship because they’re “earthly” and not “spiritual”?

Perhaps you (and Tozer) can’t worship at an “amateur talent-show”, but does that mean it’s not “real worship”? Worship is something that comes forth from your heart. If you find that you can’t worship at an “amateur talent-show filled with making lots of noise”, then don’t go there. But don’t judge those who do as not being “real” worshippers. How do you know?

most Christians do not know that the gospel and entertainment are incompatible. Many do not understand that those two are the antithesis of each other.

More dualism. It’s sad that most Christians are so ignorant about the antithesis of the gospel and entertainment. It’s a good thing that the few enlightened ones, such as yourself, are here to show us the way!

The word “muse" means to think, or to meditate. “Amuse" means not to think or to meditate, much like “amoral" means not moral or “atypical" means not typical.

Hmmm. I get a great deal of amusement from these forums and yet they certainly make me think. I also read books for amusement. Sometimes I do puzzles.

This reminds me of a preacher I heard once on late-night AM radio who was saying that “television” means “tell a vision” which means that it’s actually divination, which, according to Deuteronomy 18:10-11, is forbidden. Somehow, it all made perfect sense to him.

[Guest]

I raised my son a bit on conservative side...He has a big "dragon"
on his arm now and in a rock band....WOW, I would have NEVER
believed my son would go that way....BUT, many praying for him...
thanks Christopher for sharing a bit about your life and I know
where prayer is there is HOPE...